Aero-Nut Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 If one want to upgrade from a 495 to a 796 would you have to do it under a LOA? What would it require? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 You might need a FD MRA for approval for the modification needed to your instrument panel to install the new 796 Air Gizmo panel dock. Call Arian at FD and find out. I recently received approval for ADS-B installation and the approval is now "MRA". LOA'a are no longer used by FD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yes LOA required. This is an item in the equipment list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 You might need a FD MRA for approval for the modification needed to your instrument panel to install the new 796 Air Gizmo panel dock. Call Arian at FD and find out. I recently received approval for ADS-B installation and the approval is now "MRA". LOA'a are no longer used by FD. Hey Dick, what ADS-B gear did you get the MRA for? If it's a Garmin GDL-84 setup I'd sure be interested in the approval process and what exactly FD approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I believe there is already an LOA for the Airgizmo, at least I used one on my 696. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I believe there is already an LOA for the Airgizmo, at least I used one on my 696. I think if you really look at it a LOA needs to be for the specific airplane. As I understand it ASTM task the aircraft manufactures with keeping track of any changes made to the airplane since it was produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 So, the LOAs on this forum don't mean anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 LOA's are written two ways. It can be for a single aircraft or the fleet, but may specify SW or LS. Most if not all the LOA's on our site here are fleet wide. There already is an LOA to go from a 496 to a 796. You would need to fill out an Major alteration and repair form (located on FD's website) and submit it to FD USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero-Nut Posted January 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 I did not see an LOA to go to a 796. Can you quote the LOA number? I see one for a 696... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 So, the LOAs on this forum don't mean anything? They do mean something, but the changes still need to be recorded by Flight Design. Simple changes can now be handled by FDUSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 They do mean something, but the changes still need to be recorded by Flight Design. Simple changes can now be handled by FDUSA.So, the LOA does not have to be for a specific aircraft, but the report of the change does under an LOA does, right?How do you know which ones need to be reported. It can't be all of them. I changed the air pressure in my tires, cut notches in the wheel pants (to get at the air stem), and changed my fire extinguisher under LOAs. Do they need to be reported? I did log them - except the tire pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero-Nut Posted January 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 I would think that under the definition of a major alteration and repair (Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications) that all must be reported? So does that also mean a 337 must be completed as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi Andy. I am installing the SkyGuard TWX "EX" ADS-B transceiver and the iFly 740 GPS (manufacturer is Adventure Pilot). The iFly uses the same Air Gizmo panel dock as the Garmin 796. My MRA covers installation per SkyGuard's and iFly's installation manual. FD asked me to send SkyGuard's and iFly's specs for installation and maintenance and, being satisfied that this meets FD's safety requirements and engineering requirements, they issued a MRA specifically for my CTSW. This is similar to having the BRS or the 912ULS installed and FD deferring to these manufacturer's specs. I note that there was reference made by FD in my MRA to previous requirements published for the 696/796/Air Gizmo panel dock installation. Perhaps if one is only interested in installing a 796 there might be a "standard" MRA available to do this? I was charged for the issuance of my MRA. Recommend a call to Arian if someone needs information. Regarding installation of the Garmin GDL84, my friend had this system installed in his CTLS earlier this year. The shop that installed this took care of the paperwork. A unique MRA for this CTLS was issued. Since you own a CTSW, your installation might be different since the GDL84 was installed under the rear package tray which the CTLS has and the CTSW does not, inside the luggage compartment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 So, the LOA does not have to be for a specific aircraft, but the report of the change does under an LOA does, right? How do you know which ones need to be reported. It can't be all of them. I changed the air pressure in my tires, cut notches in the wheel pants (to get at the air stem), and changed my fire extinguisher under LOAs. Do they need to be reported? I did log them - except the tire pressure. It is my understanding that it is a ASTM requirement to track all changes to the aircraft. I guess a call to FDUSA would be in order, to see what they want reported. They after all are the point of contact here in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 I would think that under the definition of a major alteration and repair (Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications) that all must be reported? So does that also mean a 337 must be completed as well? When dealing with a SLSA things are a little different than a standard category aircraft. All changes, not just major changes go through the manufacturer not the FAA. There are no 337's to file, it must be on a form that the manufacturer uses. Even simple things that would just be a logbook entry for standard category aircraft like adding a quick drain valve to the oil tank or installing a pre-heater require approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 I agree with the quick drain comment, but what happens when the LOA says "We approve..." listing all CTLS (in my case). Do I have to send in my tire pressure change - and what if I change tires, or I have to refill them does that have to be reported? I know this sounds ridiculous, but that is what it sounds like needs to be done. With a blanket LOA, is this true? I know what FDUSA has said in the past, has something changed? http://ctflier.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Preheaters also have an LOA published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero-Nut Posted January 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Is Arian at FD USA? Since I can not locate anything on the 796 install I will call him. Anyone have his number? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Arian has on occasion commented in this forum and he is now back at FDUSA. Phone number is 860.963.7272 - ask for Arian. His email is topservice@flightdesignusa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero-Nut Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Arian has on occasion commented in this forum and he is now back at FDUSA. Phone number is 860.963.7272 - ask for Arian. His email is topservice@flightdesignusa.com Thank you! You guys are a wealth of information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Preheaters also have an LOA published. I talked to Arian about this not long ago, because I was doing a Tanis installation on a CTLSi. He wanted me to file a MRA, even though there is a fleet wide authorization. This has been a learning process for all of us including the manufacturers, and this includes the requirement for recording the changes made to the airplane. I think it was 2 years ago at Oshkosh that I was talking about having installed a set of Matco wheels and brakes on a CTSW. I was told I needed to submit a MRA for the installation, even though there was a fleet wide LOA. It was then explained to me that a SLSA must maintain the configuration as it was delivered from the factory, and any changes from that configuration needs to be recorded by the manufacturer. The fleet wide LOA's simply mean that the change has already been approved, but it still needs to be recorded. I agree that filing a MRA for a change in tire pressure or replacing a fire extinguisher sounds silly, and I likely won't be filing any unless I here further guidance from FDUSA. In my mind those are not changes to the aircraft configuration. If I am adding or making a significant change to any equipment that is covered by a LOA I will submit a MRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero-Nut Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I talked to Arian about this not long ago, because I was doing a Tanis installation on a CTLSi. He wanted me to file a MRA, even though there is a fleet wide authorization. This has been a learning process for all of us including the manufacturers, and this includes the requirement for recording the changes made to the airplane. I think it was 2 years ago at Oshkosh that I was talking about having installed a set of Matco wheels and brakes on a CTSW. I was told I needed to submit a MRA for the installation, even though there was a fleet wide LOA. It was then explained to me that a SLSA must maintain the configuration as it was delivered from the factory, and any changes from that configuration needs to be recorded by the manufacturer. The fleet wide LOA's simply mean that the change has already been approved, but it still needs to be recorded. I agree that filing a MRA for a change in tire pressure or replacing a fire extinguisher sounds silly, and I likely won't be filing any unless I here further guidance from FDUSA. In my mind those are not changes to the aircraft configuration. If I am adding or making a significant change to any equipment that is covered by a LOA I will submit a MRA. Submitting an MRA is not a big deal as long as I can find the LOA that authorizes it. Have not found one yet. Seems most of the ones on this site are several years old. Nothing current. Is there a place to go see the current list? Guess I need to ask FDUSA hoping they have a current list and there is one for this modification... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero-Nut Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Where can one get the MOA form? I am looking on both FD websites and can't find it so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero-Nut Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Where can one get the MOA form? I am looking on both FD websites and can't find it so far... Oops... Never mind... Found it on here... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Yeah, I can't find the FD list of LOAs (except those on this site). I used to be able to find them. Any clue anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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