I've rejoined the ranks...

[FastEddieB]

...of Flight Instructors!

 

I had let my certificate expire back in 2012 just out of benign neglect. Recently I've had a few opportunities to put it to use, so...

 

I flew the little Sky Arrow to S FL to take a recertification ride with an old friend and DPE

 

Mission accomplished!

 

 

Anyway, not soliciting or planning to use it on a regular basis. Plus, without a medical I'll have some important restrictions on who I can instruct and under what conditions.

 

Just figured it could come in handy!

[Runtoeat]

Bet it was a good exercise for the mind to go over the regs preparing for recertification.  Congratulations.

[FlyingMonkey]

Well done!

[Anticept]

I want to make jokes about moving to an underground bunker for safety.

 

I'll instead just say congrats  

[Cluemeister]

Congrats Eddie!  Is it a certain category of CFI?  

[FastEddieB]

Congrats Eddie!  Is it a certain category of CFI?

 

Thanks, everyone.

 

CFI, Single and Multi-Engine Land and Instrument.

 

Though as I said, unless I commit to getting a medical, I'll be limited to instructing in planes where the student is already qualified to act as PIC. And Sport Pilot, as long as they provide the plane.

 

That will expand a bit after the PBOR2 is in place. I think.

[Andy]

Actually, Eddie, I'm not sure PBOR2 is going to help you with that. The provisions for not flying "for hire" seem to exclude any expansion of CFI privileges.  Here's what AOPA says about using it to fly as a CFI: "While we were supportive of the applicability of the new reforms to CFIs, unfortunately, we understand the legislative intent is that the new medical reforms will not be required by law to be extended to CFIs. Under existing law as well as under the new legislation, the FAA continues to have the discretion to modify or retain the medical certification requirements and procedures that currently apply to CFIs."

 

Congrats, though.  Just renewed my CFI-S using AOPA's FIRC.

[FastEddieB]

Thanks for that insight.

 

It is what it is, or actually will be what it will be.

 

I will research it carefully.

 

But, to be clear, CFI's have always been able to give instruction without a medical, so long as the student is qualified to act as PIC. And get paid for it. As long as the PBOR2 does not end up making that more restrictive than before, I should still be able to do some instructing in planes other than LSA's and get paid for it.

 

This seems to explain the current status quo pretty clearly:

 

https://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/inst_reports2.cfm?article=4674

[Andy]

Thanks. I knew about that in general but didn't know about being able to teach in actual IMC.  That's an interesting wrinkle in the regs!  Not something I can take advantage of as a Subpart K guy, and I'm not seeing enough there to make it worth it to me to pursue getting a Subpart H CFI.  I had thought about that when I knew the  new rule was coming forward; but I'll be content with moving back to some of my old GA haunts while continuing to fly and instruct in Light Sport.  Got my eyes on a Cheetah and maybe an Arrow in a couple of local flying clubs....when I'm not flying my CT.

[FlyingMonkey]

I'm guessing you could give instrument training, as long as it's not in actual IMC (where the student could not act as PIC), correct?  

[Ed Cesnalis]

I'm guessing you could give instrument training, as long as it's not in actual IMC (where the student could not act as PIC), correct?  

 

 

I'm guessing the client would make a lousy PIC while wearing a view limiting device.

[FlyingMonkey]

I'm guessing the client would make a lousy PIC while wearing a view limiting device.

 

Pilots train that way all the time for instrument work, with a "safety pilot" looking outside.  The only difference in this case would be the safety pilot is also instructing.

[Ed Cesnalis]

There has to be a PIC and he has to have vision.  The PIC doesn't have to sit in left seat, he doesn't have to manipulate the controls but he has to see.

[Tom Baker]

There has to be a PIC and he has to have vision.  The PIC doesn't have to sit in left seat, he doesn't have to manipulate the controls but he has to see.

 

If that was the case wouldn't IFR flight be impossible?

[Andy]

Hey, Andy, you're right if the pilot is a student but, if he is already instrument rated, it is just the opposite.  A subpart H instructor is a required pilot crew member when acting as a safety pilot with an instrument rated pilot using a vision restricting device in VMC but not a required crewmember when the pilot is PIC under IMC.  Then, the CFI can instruct without a medical.  (A related wrinkle arguably comes into play when a Subpart K CFI is giving simulated instrument instruction in an LSA in VMC.  He must also have at least a Private Pilot certificate to satisfy 91.109c  but acts as a PIC with a DL under 61.3c(2)(v). Fortunately, I won't have to test that since there is a NPRM on the streets to allow Subpart K CFi's to give that instruction for initial students.)

 

Here's the quote out of the AOPA article FastEddie provided.  It's talking about acting as a Subpart H CFI without a medical: "However, you may give instrument training to an IFR-qualified and current pilot in actual conditions, assuming the pilot is fully qualified to act as PIC under these circumstances. No safety pilot is required in IMC, so the CFI is not a required pilot crewmember and there is no requirement for a medical certificate."

[Ed Cesnalis]

If that was the case wouldn't IFR flight be impossible

 

Maybe you mean flight in IMC?  The safety pilot needs to be able to see when the client is vision restricted.  'SEE and avoid' applies on all flights.

[Tom Baker]

Maybe you mean flight in IMC?  The safety pilot needs to be able to see when the client is vision restricted.  'SEE and avoid' applies on all flights.

 

You are correct I did mean IMC. However, since IMC flight is mostly performed under IFR rules my statement would still apply.

 

You said, "There has to be a PIC and he has to have vision.". The PIC does not have to have vision. The PIC has to meet all the requirements to act as PIC, but the safety pilot does not. The safety pilot needs to be at least a private pilot. He needs to have a current medical, because he is acting as a required flight crew member. He does not have to have a current flight review or the required take offs and landings to be PIC.

Here is the applicable CFR.

© No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately supplements the vision of the safety pilot; and

(3) Except in the case of lighter-than-air aircraft, that aircraft is equipped with fully functioning dual controls. However, simulated instrument flight may be conducted in a single-engine airplane, equipped with a single, functioning, throwover control wheel, in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons, when—

(i) The safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and

(ii) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.

 

You can look at 61.3 for the medical requirements.

 

In addition here is a link from AOPA. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/august/pilot/pilot-counsel-safety-pilot

[FlyingMonkey]

Hey, Andy, you're right if the pilot is a student but, if he is already instrument rated, it is just the opposite.  A subpart H instructor is a required pilot crew member when acting as a safety pilot with an instrument rated pilot using a vision restricting device in VMC but not a required crewmember when the pilot is PIC under IMC.  Then, the CFI can instruct without a medical.  (A related wrinkle arguably comes into play when a Subpart K CFI is giving simulated instrument instruction in an LSA in VMC.  He must also have at least a Private Pilot certificate to satisfy 91.109c  but acts as a PIC with a DL under 61.3c(2)(v). Fortunately, I won't have to test that since there is a NPRM on the streets to allow Subpart K CFi's to give that instruction for initial students.)

 

Here's the quote out of the AOPA article FastEddie provided.  It's talking about acting as a Subpart H CFI without a medical: "However, you may give instrument training to an IFR-qualified and current pilot in actual conditions, assuming the pilot is fully qualified to act as PIC under these circumstances. No safety pilot is required in IMC, so the CFI is not a required pilot crewmember and there is no requirement for a medical certificate."

 

Thanks Andy, you clearly have a handle on this!  BTW, let me know if you are going to be in Huntsville again in the near future and would like to grab lunch.

[Ed Cesnalis]

I stand corrected

[FastEddieB]

Just to let everyone know I made it home safely.

 

Nothing like your home field finally coming into view after a long day of flying!

 

[Cluemeister]

Just to let everyone know I made it home safely.

 

Nothing like your home field finally coming into view after a long day of flying!

 

 

How many miles and hours did it take to get home?

[FastEddieB]

How many miles and hours did it take to get home?

 

 

Let me start a new thread on the trip down and back.