Fly Boss Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 The original 2007 CTLS (860LS) seats are internally showing their age and wear. The leather is in good condition, but after taking delivery last year, the passenger seat shell collapsed on the front edge when it cracked through, lost all strength, and sagged to the floor. Fixing it was not easy and resulted in aluminum bracing being applied on both sides of the shell. As time has gone on and particularly now that it is colder and drier, both seats are creaking like crazy whenever any pressure or weight is applied to or put into the seats. Without removing the leather, I've concluded that there must be numerous cracks in the shell that are rubbing together to make the creaking sounds. The creaking is not coming from the bulkhead behind the seats. I have no idea how much is cracked but I'm thinking that if the seats give out we're in big trouble. So i'm ready to take the seats apart and determine the nature of the cracks or whatever is causing the creaking. Should I find cracks, are they repairable? I'd like to be prepared to do these repairs myself. I know the shells are not fiberglass, but what are they made of? Can they be repaired with fiberglass or some material with that level of strength? Has anyone had to address creaking, and if so, was it resolved without purchasing new seats or shells? Thanks Danny Arkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 I had a good sized crack in the shell on my CTSW. Had no idea until I removed the seat cover for something else. The shell I believe is fiberglass reinforced with Kevlar in the center portion. I stop-drilled the cracks, laid some epoxy resin into the crack, and put a patch of carbon fiber over the whole area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Cracking across the back of a high back seat is caused by letting the top edge rest against the bulkhead. This cause a focal point in the center and it will break a seat. The strap behind the seat should be tight enough to keep it at least an inch off the back bulkhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Earlier models are fiberglass and kevlar. later models have carbon fiber. If you are putting it together where it compresses, you need to use fiberglass. Kevlar is for tensile and abrasive resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 I have had my seats repaired on my CTSW. On the CTSW, when a seat is set to the rearmost adjustment position, there can be a groundout condition caused by the seat bottom hitting the head of the landing gear leg attaching bolt. To prevent this, feel under the seat and find where the interference is to this bolt. Adjust the bulkhead strap so that the seat is at least 1" away from the bolt. If there's a heavy person sitting in this seat, the 1" clearance still may not be sufficient due to the seat flex. Readjust the strap for more clearance if this is the case. I believe the CTLS is designed differently and does not have this bolt. This was the cause for my cracking but the seat can still crack over time and need repair even without this hard point interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 I have repaired several seats over the years. As Roger pointed out the usual problem is not having the seat support strap adjusted properly. Unless they have been changed the seats in your airplane have seen a lot of abuse. That airplane was the first CTLS in the US, and was used as a demo airplane at many shows. I even have a flight in that airplane back in January 2008. I was at several shows where N860LS was on display, and was witness to the abuse the seats took. Also in my opinion whoever made a repair using aluminum did you a disservice. The seat should be properly repaired in accordance with Flight Design procedures. The seat is a critical part of surviving a hard landing, crash, or parachute pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 The original 2007 CTLS (860LS) seats are internally showing their age and wear. The leather is in good condition, but after taking delivery last year, the passenger seat shell collapsed on the front edge when it cracked through, lost all strength, and sagged to the floor. Fixing it was not easy and resulted in aluminum bracing being applied on both sides of the shell. As time has gone on and particularly now that it is colder and drier, both seats are creaking like crazy whenever any pressure or weight is applied to or put into the seats. Without removing the leather, I've concluded that there must be numerous cracks in the shell that are rubbing together to make the creaking sounds. The creaking is not coming from the bulkhead behind the seats. I have no idea how much is cracked but I'm thinking that if the seats give out we're in big trouble. So i'm ready to take the seats apart and determine the nature of the cracks or whatever is causing the creaking. Should I find cracks, are they repairable? I'd like to be prepared to do these repairs myself. I know the shells are not fiberglass, but what are they made of? Can they be repaired with fiberglass or some material with that level of strength? Has anyone had to address creaking, and if so, was it resolved without purchasing new seats or shells? Thanks Danny Arkin You need to replace them. They are designed to be part of the plane crashing under canopy on a chute pull...patching them with materials may cost you a spine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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