Jump to content

Today I tried to get my 2nd flight in and dead battery!


Buckaroo

Recommended Posts

Hanger temps in the 50's. Went to crank her up to no avail. After about three four second tries the battery crapped out. My flight instructor became a little uneasy over the jump start wondering if this tired battery might cause a in flight engine failure. I couldn't tell him either way so we scrapped the long awaited flight.

 

With a real bad battery what effect does this have in flight?

 

I ordered a Odyssey 310 replacement and am now waiting for 2nd day air.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 62
  • Created
  • Last Reply

The airplane will continue running even with a dead battery.  The ignition modules will keep making spark with a dead battery, like a traditional magneto.  Just FYI.

 

It's still better to have a working battery for a flight of course!  The only time I did a jump was when trying to get back home a short distance, and I replaced the battery before the next flight.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Morden is right.  The Rotax will run (not start) without the battery but it's ill advised to fly with the battery dead.  The battery will be needed in case you need to restart the engine in flight (on on the ground if you don't make it back to the ramp with the engine still running).  The battery also acts as a "buffer" if you drain the power the alternator produces to the point of requiring battery backup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Morden is right.  The Rotax will run (not start) without the battery but it's ill advised to fly with the battery dead.  The battery will be needed in case you need to restart the engine in flight (on on the ground if you don't make it back to the ramp with the engine still running).  The battery also acts as a "buffer" if you drain the power the alternator produces to the point of requiring battery backup.

 

One thing I found about this:  I had no problems in flight, but once landed the flaps would not retract.  It turns out at idle RPM the stator was not producing enough power to run everything without drawing from the battery, but was enough at normal flight RPM.  I turned off the landing light, and the flaps came right up.  I guess my little 11.5W LED landing light (which I run all the time) tipped the balance and didn't leave enough power left for the flaps at idle RPM. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if the battery was so bad that resistance from the battery could effect full power and rpm? One Rotax guru I know said that running a bad battery can cause stress on the reduction gear. I would think the only thing that could be rough on the gear box would be rpm fluctuations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if the battery was so bad that resistance from the battery could effect full power and rpm? One Rotax guru I know said that running a bad battery can cause stress on the reduction gear. I would think the only thing that could be rough on the gear box would be rpm fluctuations.

Also interested in hearing Roger and Tom's angle on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roger and Tom what you think? Also running a battery tender on a Odyssey gel 310 ok or bad for the battery??

 

I think you need a special charger, they don't charge the same way as standard lead-acid batteries.  I have the charger for it but I can't remember the brand.  I think you risk a fire if you charge with a traditional charger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Battery Tender has a model said to be for Gel type batteries.

http://products.batterytender.com/Automotive/Battery-Tender-Plus-GEL-12V-1-25A.html

The Odyssey website lists approved chargers for that battery. There are several.

Andy, I and others use the CTEK charger. It has given me great service. It is small, fully automatic and comes with a handy travel bag.

A protective rubber bumper is available for it, just look at the bottom of the page.

 

Note: *Use only the "snowflake" mode when charging. That is published from Odyssey.

 

Here's the Amazon site link:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006G14FK8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple things to make note of, one is the voltage on your Dynon EMS when you turn the battery master on. Second is starting procedure. A good fresh battery will show just over 12 volts with the master turned on. When it gets to where it is showing 11.6 to 11.7 your cranking ability will be limited.

 

For charging you need to make sure the charger is a constant voltage charger. Most regular car chargers start with a higher voltage and drop off as the charge is completed. I use this charger, http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/201808532575?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true . It is branded by the manufacture of our batteries so it must be good. Anyway I have had good luck with it. it not only will charge the battery, but also seems to help the health of the battery. By that I mean it seems to increase the dwindling capacity after being left on the battery for an extended period of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Odyssey engineer (Bruce 620 429-7506) told me to use CTEK Multi 4.3M charger on Snowflake setting for PC 310. We had a long conversation in August 2015 about the 310 and the Rotax charge systems inability to fully charge an AGM battery. Rotax can not charge at 14.2 volts and the 310 requires that to achieve its 12.84 volt full charge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CTEK is the one I have as well.

So in my 50 degree hanger should I run the charger at all times in storage or once in awhile? These A&P's I have airport hanger coffee with each morning tell me I'm frying my battery. My 2007 Corvette, motorcycles, boat etc all do well on the battery tender. My Vette sits 6 months each year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So in my 50 degree hanger should I run the charger at all times in storage or once in awhile? These A&P's I have airport hanger coffee with each morning tell me I'm frying my battery. My 2007 Corvette, motorcycles, boat etc all do well on the battery tender. My Vette sits 6 months each year.

 

Ask 5 CT owners, you'll get 7 answers.  :D

 

I don't leave mine charging, I just think the possibility of a mishap causing damage to the airplane doesn't justify it.  There is no flight I absolutely HAVE to make that requires the battery be topped off -- I can charge it a few hours or scrub my flight plans.

 

Others do leave the CTEK chargers on all the time.  It probably makes more sense in Montana than in Georgia where I am, since Montana cold will sap a battery dead quickly.  If you want to be really clever and don't mind the extra money, buy two batteries and have the second ready to swap out in case your primary fails.  You can swap them in ten minutes and then charge or troubleshoot the dead battery when convenient and you still get to fly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW, I also have a CTEK and also a NOCO G1100 "Wicked Smart" charger.  Both work great. I  keep the CTEK on my CTSW 100% of the time and have never had any problems.  When I go to fly, the charger shows green and my battery is 100% charged.  My neighbor bought a new Corvette and it had a CTEK included in the maintenance package and directly wired to his AGM battery so it could be plugged in whenever the car would sit for long periods of time. 2 winters ago I boiled out a battery on my truck with my NOCO.  I called the company and talked to the owner.  He asked if I had the battery connected to the car's system or was it on the bench.  I told him it was on the truck's system.  He said when there is a slight battery drain - which there was due to the EPROM module and anti-theft constantly being "on" in my truck - the NOCO will read this as a condition where charging is needed and it will go into the charging cycle.  This apparently caused the overcharging and loss of electrolyte.  My CTSW has no battery drain when idle.  The CT's with glass panels draw a small but constant battery drain while sitting. Sounds like you verify this Tip.  You're in a cold climate and OK leaving your type of charger on 100% with glass.  Perhaps it's best to monitor the charger as Andy states if one has glass?  I think I'll try calling CTEK and NOCO again and ask their tech about leaving "smart" chargers on when there's a small drain.

 

Update:  I talked to NOCO tech support.  They said if the battery is the flooded type (removable caps to add water), the fluid levels should be checked and maintained to insure the levels do not drop below the plates.  This is probably what happened to my truck battery since I didn't maintain the levels for a couple months.  The tech support said for AGM batteries which have a closed loop system that retains electrolyte (our Odyssey battery), the charger can be left on indefinitely.  They said the charger should have a capacity to provide 5X the amp drain rate.   Example  If the drain from the system is 200mA (.2amp), the charger should be able to provide at least a 1 amp charge rate.  I am not a EE and so this is offered as non-technical information. Battery charging is always a topic actively discussed among airplane, boat, RV and car owners and I would welcome comments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So in my 50 degree hanger should I run the charger at all times in storage or once in awhile? These A&P's I have airport hanger coffee with each morning tell me I'm frying my battery. My 2007 Corvette, motorcycles, boat etc all do well on the battery tender. My Vette sits 6 months each year.

 

Flight Design supplies a battery tender with each new plane.  I forgot the maker...but you can contact them and find it out.  It is not wise to put an aircraft battery on a tender constantly.  The correct way is to get a good, working battery and maintain it properly.  If yours is old and worn out just replace it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My log book listed the Odyssey 310 change out 5 years ago. So after my no start the other day I go home and order another $160 Odyssey with 2nd day air. Then yesterday I go out to pull the battery and what date is that one----9/16. Now I'm throwing money away I think.

 

I'll check the 9/16 out again and probably keep it as a second.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the Dynons, you will need to have the charger on all the time. I have the one Tom posted and have had good luck with it.

 

Is that really true?  I have a D-100 in my airplane, but not a D-120, and have never had a problem.  I do usually fly at least once a week, which probably helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...