Towing gliders

[ls6pilot]

Just wondered if anyone had experience towing gliders with a CTSW.

 

Rich Chesser

2005 CTSW N969CT

PP SEL, glider

[Tom Baker]

I only remember of hearing of 1 in the USA set up for towing. It was in the Northeast somewhere. I have no clue how well it did towing.

[Roger Lee]

If I'm not mistaken it is illegal to tow with an LSA in the US.

[ls6pilot]

Not planning to tow. They have used them in Europe. Just curious how they perform. 

 

It is illegal for a sport pilot to tow. 

 

Not sure about a PP in a slsa. Here is the reference for usa lsa:

These aircraft may not be operated for compensation or hire except to tow a light-sport glider or an unpowered ultralight vehicle in accordance with 14 CFR § 91.309 or to conduct flight training.

Many gliders would not fit lsa because of the max vne set at 120 knots. 

Any comments from across the pond?

 

Rich

[Tom Baker]

If I'm not mistaken it is illegal to tow with an LSA in the US.

 

You are mistaken. Any LSA with an airworthiness certificate in the standard category can tow any glider. Any SLSA or SLSA converted to ELSA may tow a ultralight or light sport glider for hire. LSA with airworthiness certificates issued under other forms in the experimental category may also be used also if allowed on their operating limitations. These operations are allowed to be performed in the aircraft, but they may not be performed by a sport pilot, or a pilot operating under sport pilot privileges. This is a good example that it is what you are doing in a LSA that determines what pilot certificate you must hold , and if you need a medical. It is not just the simple fact that you are flying a LSA.

[WmInce]

You are mistaken. Any LSA with an airworthiness certificate in the standard category can tow any glider. Any SLSA or SLSA converted to ELSA may tow a ultralight or light sport glider for hire. LSA with airworthiness certificates issued under other forms in the experimental category may also be used also if allowed on their operating limitations. These operations are allowed to be performed in the aircraft, but they may not be performed by a sport pilot, or a pilot operating under sport pilot privileges. This is a good example that it is what you are doing in a LSA that determines what pilot certificate you must hold , and if you need a medical. It is not just the simple fact that you are flying a LSA.

Thank you for setting the record straight . . . again!

[CT4ME]

There was a Aero Towing option available in the early years... and this mention in the early brochures...

 

[Tom Baker]

The checklist for my CTLS even has checking the tow release listed as an item to check.

[Roger Lee]

It was originally approved for overseas CT's, but not in the US.

 

Hi Tom,

 

That sounds like an out of date checklist from years gone by? Newer ones don't have that. 

[Tom Baker]

It was originally approved for overseas CT's, but not in the US.

 

Hi Tom,

 

That sounds like an out of date checklist from years gone by? Newer ones don't have that. 

 

It is the checklist that was delivered with my CTLS when new. It is still included on the most recent version in the AOI posted on the FDUSA website.

[Roger Lee]

Hi Tom,

 

I looked in the 2008 version of the  CTLS maint. checklist and did not see this.

 

Are you talking about sections 9 &10 in the AOI? Where it says testing of sailplane and banner towing has not yet been finished?

It also says it may not be approved in some countries. 

 

There is no mention of a tow setup inspection procedure in the maint. checklist? If it isn't listed in the maint. checklist then FD would have no official way to perform and inspection.

[ct9000]

For what its worth they tow gliders in AUS with CT although personally I have not but have been told that it works well mainly because of the wide speed range and good low speed controlability

[Roger Lee]

FD used to advertise this option on their website way back when, but I have never seen or heard of anyone on this site actually say they have seen this.

[Tom Baker]

Roger, it is on the preflight inspection checklist. Item 27 page 4-2. As for section 9, the testing may have been completed since January 2009. Anyway the OP ask about the CTSW not the CTLS.

 

The fact that the CTLS had not been tested yet in 2009, doesn't change the fact that it is legal to tow a glider with a SLSA.

 

I have heard of a CTSW in the Northeast that was being used as a glider tow plane, but that was several years ago.

[Roger Lee]

To tow it would most likely need to be commercial which an LSA can't be. People don't just tow things for fun.

 

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/LSA_Cert_8July2013.pdf

 

 

These aircraft may not be operated for compensation or hire except to tow a light-sport glider or an unpowered ultralight vehicle in accordance with 14 CFR § 91.309 or to conduct flight training.

[Doug G.]

The operating limits on my plane make an exception for glider towing. I'll post the language when I get home.

[Tom Baker]

To tow it would most likely need to be commercial which an LSA can't be. People don't just tow things for fun.

 

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/LSA_Cert_8July2013.pdf

 

 

These aircraft may not be operated for compensation or hire except to tow a light-sport glider or an unpowered ultralight vehicle in accordance with 14 CFR § 91.309 or to conduct flight training.

 

First off lets be specific, we are talking about SLSA. LSA covers any airplane that meets the CFR 1.1 definition, and some of those can be flown for commercial purposes.

 

In your last line you sited the important statement relevant to SLSA and towing gliders. Towing a light sport glider or ultralight glider, Instruction and rental are the only things a SLSA can be flown for commercially.

[Doug G.]

SLSA - CTLS

[Doug G.]

FAA

Light-Sport Operating Limitations

Light Sport Aircraft (Airplane)

 

​(10) No person may operate this aircraft in the light-sport category for compensation or hire except to tow a light-sport glider or an unpowered ultralight vehicle in accordance with 91.309 or to conduct flight training.

 

All S-LSAs carry these limitations in their planes. I suspect E-LSA has a similar set?

[Roger Lee]

Looks like it's time to call the FAA in the morning.

[Tom Baker]

Looks like it's time to call the FAA in the morning.

 

Why?? It is clearly spelled out in the regulations and in the operating limitations for SLSA.

[Anticept]

Here's the rules on towing:

 

First: 61.69 applies. You must be private pilot or higher and have appropriate experience.

 

Second: 91.309 applies. you must have the appropriate preparations.

 

Here's the gotcha: NO LSA may be used for hire. (Sidenote: the FAA does NOT consider flight instruction "for hire"). The wording that you're looking for is that LSA may be used only for recreational purposes. That means no receiving pay for towing. You may, however, tow, for example, other flying club airplanes. Glider clubs and LSAs are allowed.

 

There are talks about opening up LSA to allowing towing for hire.

[Tom Baker]

Here's the rules on towing:

 

First: 61.69 applies. You must be private pilot or higher and have appropriate experience.

 

Second: 91.309 applies. you must have the appropriate preparations.

 

Here's the gotcha: NO LSA may be used for hire. (Sidenote: the FAA does NOT consider flight instruction "for hire"). The wording that you're looking for is that LSA may be used only for recreational purposes. That means no receiving pay for towing. You may, however, tow, for example, other flying club airplanes. Glider clubs and LSAs are allowed.

 

There are talks about opening up LSA to allowing towing for hire.

 

Corey, you also need to look at 91.327. This where the regulations say that you may not use a SLSA for hire. However the are 2 exceptions, and they are listed in 91.327, (a), (1) and (2). The exception in (1) is where you are allowed to use a SLSA for hire towing a light sport glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.

 

Also you need to be more specific, because there are a large number of LSA with airworthiness certificates in the standard category. These airplanes can certainly be used for hire.

[Tom Baker]

If you put all the regs together, it sounds like an SLSA may tow a light sport glider or nonpowered ultralight.  The pilot must be Private or higher.  If Commercial, he could get paid.  That's how I read it anyway.

 

With an appropriate medical certificate to exercise those privileges.

[Anticept]

Corey, you also need to look at 91.327. This where the regulations say that you may not use a SLSA for hire. However the are 2 exceptions, and they are listed in 91.327, (a), (1) and (2). The exception in (1) is where you are allowed to use a SLSA for hire towing a light sport glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.

 

Also you need to be more specific, because there are a large number of LSA with airworthiness certificates in the standard category. These airplanes can certainly be used for hire.

 

On the first point: maybe it was the ASTM that I'm thinking of then? I know it was allowed, but the "compensation" part surprises me. Maybe I'm just misremembering.

 

On the second part: Those aren't LSAs in the sense I'm getting at. They can certainly fit the category of one per the definition in 1.1, but the rules are written around the airworthiness certificate, and that's what I'm mainly referring to.