DJ Todd B Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Has anyone replaced their Battery and Generator Master Circuit Breakers with TYCO Circuit Breaker switches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, DJ Todd B said: Has anyone replaced their Battery and Generator Master Circuit Breakers with TYCO Circuit Breaker switches? Are you talking about this puppy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 I assume you mean the TYCO breaker with a lever to switch between closed and open rather than a push-pull action. I have not made the replacement on my CT but I purchased a breaker of that style thinking I might install it in an experimental airplane. I found that the lever was very easily moved from the ON position to the OFF position. It doesn't take much of an effort to move the lever and it seemed like it would be easy to accidentally bump the breaker from ON to OFF without knowing it happened. I ended up installing push/pull style TYCO breakers for Batter and Generator on the experimental. I prefer them because they are nearly impossible to accidentally move from the ON position to the OFF position. Can't same the same for the lever style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, FredG said: I assume you mean the TYCO breaker with a lever to switch between closed and open rather than a push-pull action. I have not made the replacement on my CT but I purchased a breaker of that style thinking I might install it in an experimental airplane. I found that the lever was very easily moved from the ON position to the OFF position. It doesn't take much of an effort to move the lever and it seemed like it would be easy to accidentally bump the breaker from ON to OFF without knowing it happened. I ended up installing push/pull style TYCO breakers for Batter and Generator on the experimental. I prefer them because they are nearly impossible to accidentally move from the ON position to the OFF position. Can't same the same for the lever style. Fred, Those points are well taken here. Any way you could provide a link to that for us? Thank you for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Bill, I'm not sure what part of my post you want a link to - I was describing my own observations based on handling the breaker. If they had a very positive, crisp action, I would have installed them. I wanted a toggle style master, but not a mushy one. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Todd B Posted March 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 What would happen IF the switch was inadvertently switched off. I assume that the EFIS and everything else would go OFF but the engine would remain running. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, DJ Todd B said: What would happen IF the switch was inadvertently switched off. I assume that the EFIS and everything else would go OFF . . . . . Nope. Assuming the Skyview's have backup batteries installed, EFIS (primary flight instruments, GPS map and EMS engine monitoring system) would march on, but would alert of backup battery operation. Backup batteries should supply EFIS power for a minimum of 45 minutes (tested annually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 I have the toggles. One downside is that I have on occasion inadvertently switched one of them off when I retract the flaps. This led to seeing my systems go down on a dead battery 1/2 way across the sierra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Todd B Posted March 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 So, are these switches designed to be more Easily turned OFF, than Turned ON... like a normal house circuit breaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 You install switch guards to prevent accidental operation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Andy, sure. But, then you don't have an immediate visual indicator of OPEN vs. CLOSED, like you would with a breaker that is not guarded. Everybody gets to make their own decisions, but, I just went with PUSH-PULL. The breaker status is immediately obvious with a glance and no accidental OPEN. Regarding the toggle breakers, I don't know if they were designed to be easier to OPEN than to CLOSE. They were just too easily opened for my liking. Regarding effects of open breakers, it depends on your airplane. Does it have Skyview with backup battery? If yes, then backup battery plays a role once buss voltage drops below some threshold. Or is it a pre-skyiew airplane without battery backup? If yes, and the "GEN" breaker is OPEN and the BAT breaker is CLOSED, then the panel functions until the main battery is depleted. Then they go dark. If BAT breaker is OPEN, and no backup battery connected to the displays, then no avionics will operate (please check this for yourself, I am not looking at a wiring diagram while typing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 The effect of my accidentally open breaker is my Blue Mountain Aviaonics EFIS goes dark in about 30 min. The first thing I notice is that my tachometer steps down to 50% of correct reading. Close the switch and everything comes back in flight np Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, FredG said: Andy, sure. But, then you don't have an immediate visual indicator of OPEN vs. CLOSED, like you would with a breaker that is not guarded. Everybody gets to make their own decisions, but, I just went with PUSH-PULL. The breaker status is immediately obvious with a glance and no accidental OPEN. Regarding the toggle breakers, I don't know if they were designed to be easier to OPEN than to CLOSE. They were just too easily opened for my liking. Regarding effects of open breakers, it depends on your airplane. Does it have Skyview with backup battery? If yes, then backup battery plays a role once buss voltage drops below some threshold. Or is it a pre-skyiew airplane without battery backup? If yes, and the "GEN" breaker is OPEN and the BAT breaker is CLOSED, then the panel functions until the main battery is depleted. Then they go dark. If BAT breaker is OPEN, and no backup battery connected to the displays, then no avionics will operate (please check this for yourself, I am not looking at a wiring diagram while typing). I didn't mean that response to be a cut down of your decision; I actually like the push/pull breakers too. My response sounded gruff because I wrote "you install..." when I meant to write "you COULD install..." Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Andy, thanks, no worries. I meant my reply to be informational, as well. Regarding DJ Todd B's question about the engine continuing to run... Once running, the engine is designed to run with no connection to any external device or battery. So, pulling both master breakers won't stop the engine (if installed correctly). Only grounding the "p-leads" (I know, the 912 does not use a magneto ignition system) from the ignition modules will stop the engine. On my plane, that only happens with the key switch is rotated to the stop position. This post is informational only. Do not attempt this in flight without being certain that you know what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Welsch Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 If you install the toggle breakers (W-31) to replace the existing W-23 you will need to enlarge the hole - the neck of the W-31 is larger in diameter. Also, to have the toggle face down when off, the W-31 will need to be installed "up side down" relative to the position of the W-23. That means that the wires will need to be untied to make them long enough to reach the proper line and load terminals on the W-31. My W-23 Battery Master failed at 930 hours and about 1,500 cycles. No where near the 6,000 electrical or 10,000 cycle mechanical cycle indicated in the breaker spec sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 hours ago, FredG said: (I know, the 912 does not use a magneto ignition system) Actually it does have a magneto system. I just renewed my CFI through Gleim, and I went around and round with them on this topic. They think because it is a dual electronic ignition system it is not a magneto system. It is true that it doesn't have a traditional aircraft magneto system. but the dual electronic ignition gets its power from a magneto generator. This source of power is part of the system, therefore technically making it a magneto system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Tom, I said "does not use a magneto ignition system" and I was specifically referring to my slight misuse of the term "p-lead" for the 912 ignition module grounding wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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