sandpiper Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 I am hearing reports from people returning from AirVenture that LSA rules are in the process of being changed. Won't be effective for two years. Weights will go up, increase in stall speeds, in cockpit adjustable props, max airspeed to be increased, etc. Does anyone have more information about this and how it may effect existing LSA such as our CT's?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, sandpiper said: I am hearing reports from people returning from AirVenture that LSA rules are in the process of being changed. Won't be effective for two years. Weights will go up, increase in stall speeds, in cockpit adjustable props, max airspeed to be increased, etc. Does anyone have more information about this and how it may effect existing LSA such as our CT's?? I will make one comment John, My CTSW's speed and complexity are basically fixed, unless I turbo this sucker For now I don't care much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vance Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 Maybe we could get -12 flaps with a couple of minor modifications. Ten extra knots (??) at cruise would be lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 50 minutes ago, John Vance said: Maybe we could get -12 flaps with a couple of minor modifications. Ten extra knots (??) at cruise would be lovely. Do you think its worth ten? I think WOT + 5,500 + -12 is worth 10 (above 7k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben2k9 Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 Higher legal gross weight would be nice. We already know the plane can handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, JohnnyBlackCT said: The definition of LSA is changing. Your particular LSA will not change unless the manufacture chooses to change it's certification to the new limits. A friend who was there said he heard the same thing. Not sure how this would affect ELSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 -12 won't get you anything better than -6. I know from 1500 hrs of -12 and on 6 planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 As was said: The definition is changing. Your aircraft is not, unless the manufacturer makes the changes. https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/LAMA-Higher-LSA-Weight-Good-for-the-Industry-231227-1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben2k9 Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 Let’s hope FD does whatever it takes to increase gross weight limits for existing planes, when the opportunity arrives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 ELSA are in the experimental catergory, not light sport. As such, any change is allowed as long as it doesn't take the airplane outside the light sport definition. A "major change" such as a prop or engine change requires testing by the owner and notification of the FSDO. I'm guessing a weight change will be considered a major change, but should be allowed since it won't take the airplane outside the (new) LSA definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said: ELSA are in the experimental catergory, not light sport. As such, any change is allowed as long as it doesn't take the airplane outside the light sport definition. A "major change" such as a prop or engine change requires testing by the owner and notification of the FSDO. I'm guessing a weight change will be considered a major change, but should be allowed since it won't take the airplane outside the (new) LSA definition. more motivation to convert to ELSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Ed Cesnalis said: more motivation to convert to ELSA Personally, I think the ELSA rules are the best deal in aviation right now. Do your own maintenance with a weekend 16 hour course (if you are so inclined), no LOA/MRA factory hassles or payments, and make whatever modifications you want*...it's great and I have never looked back. *As long as the modifications keep the airplane within LSA performance limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vance Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 21 hours ago, Roger Lee said: -12 won't get you anything better than -6. I know from 1500 hrs of -12 and on 6 planes. I had always thought that the elimination of -12 for the American market was needed to comply with the 120 kt limit. Not so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 58 minutes ago, John Vance said: I had always thought that the elimination of -12 for the American market was needed to comply with the 120 kt limit. Not so? I think its the stall speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 It was stall, but during a lot of testing with 4 CT's I found no noticeable difference between stall and or top speed. It just wasn't worth the change and at extreme altitudes -12 was a detriment. Remember to that the huge majority of you fly well under gross weight. My time with these Ct's were both with a normal sized single pilot and other times up to 1475 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 I'd be happy if they changed the stall speed requirement from 45KCAS with flaps up to 45KCAS with full flaps. That would give the CTs a lot of room to be heavier and still make the stall speed requirement. A 150/152 could probably make that number as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 I smell a new generation of LSA's with a Rotax 915iS Turbo powering them... How exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Adam said: I smell a new generation of LSA's with a Rotax 915iS Turbo powering them... How exciting. Good point Adam, but for the money, I'd prefer the 180 hp Titan 340. I.e. Rans S-21 Outbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 Like my gramma used to say . . . "wish in one hand . . spit in the other . . guess which one fills up the fastest! . . I actually cleaned that up a little. She was a real character . . a ship welder durinng WW2 and drove an "Indian" motorcycle. God rest her soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 I think that any weight increase in our CT's, should FD be so inclined, would be limited by the BRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 9 hours ago, sandpiper said: I think that any weight increase in our CT's, should FD be so inclined, would be limited by the BRS. Keep in mind BRS makes chutes for 182's and Cirrus too. Heavier plane, bigger chute. Anyone see the recent story on LSA safety in Aviation Consumer? (or Aviation Safety, can't remember which one). Virtually half of the accidents in LSA's are loss of control on the runway during landing. Article was not very kind to our CT's. I'd like to see some weight given to improving the landing gear (in my opinion the weak spot in virtually all LSA's). So - give me the 915iS Turbo for power, a bit stronger landing gear and John's requested slightly larger chute - throw in some Air Conditioning and I'm ready to write a check! (ok, maybe I just need to put on my big boy pants and fly a big boy air plane). Fun to dream... One LSA "ready to go" to higher weights is the Tecnam P2008. It's already a certified plane in the EU at that higher weight limit (P2008JC). I suspect a few of the manufacturers are busy tinkering with new configurations as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 I'm guessing the BRS issue would just cause a higher descent rate. Unless you *really* cranked up the weight, it would probably be acceptable. Float planes at 1430lb use the same parachute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 10 hours ago, sandpiper said: I think that any weight increase in our CT's, should FD be so inclined, would be limited by the BRS. Aw yes. You are right and a larger chute would require and new mount, space and certification. Won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 Doesn't the CTLE at 1500 pounds use the same chute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 It's hard to find specs on the LE. One article alludes to the wing being beefed up, another says the only change allowing the 1500# is that it has to be a Public Aircraft. So far I haven't found anything about the BRS except that it has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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