Scotsman58 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Here's an interesting company: Portable Fuel Systems. I found their air-pumped fuel tank system at Aviation Spruce. But when I went to their website, I saw that they are developing a filter to remove ethanol: Ethanol Removal. Their testing data suggests that 16 gals of 91 octane E10 yields 15 gals of 88 octane ethanol-free gas. Extrapolation suggests that 93 octane E10 might then yield 91 octane ethanol-free, which is interesting. Not clear when they will get the ethanol system to market; also, I have to note that the fuel tank system, even without the filter, is pretty expensive, and I'm not sure how one would safely transport a tank of that size, in the absence of a pickup truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 91 oct. fuel that has been washed with water yields 87 oct. finished. I have seen the test reports from another company. The other problem is it also takes some of the other additives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 This begs the question of why on earth would you want to remove the ethanol since it is keeping the octane up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 I think the hope was that if you start with 93 octane (readily available in many areas), then remove the ethanol you'd be left with 91 octane ethanol-free fuel. Don't think the math or chemistry will work, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 But still, why remove the Ethanol? It only increases the octane, even more so if it absorbs some moisture. If it absorbs so much water that it phase separates (almost impossible in practice), then you have a problem, but why engineer that problem on purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm with Kurt. Ethanol for our plane and engine is not an issue so why make it one. The fuel can absorb water which will prevent it from lying in low spots or accumulating in carb bowls, gascolator's or other low areas where it may go unnoticed and cause corrosion. Our engine will just burn the entire mixture and you'll never know it. To see water settle out of our fuel would take over a gallon of water in the fuel. Unless someone pours that much water in I doubt that even the pilots that live in a humid climate really have to worry or ever see standing water in the gascolator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotsman58 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 This forum is great -- you guys know so much more than I do. I take the points that an ethanol removal process might take the octane too low, and also remove other important elements in the fuel. But is phase separation really not a problem? If not, why are the boaters having so many problems with E10? And why does Remos actively discourage E10 (Remos Link) and Flight Design raise a substantial caution flag (Flight Design Link)? Not trying to be difficult -- just trying to understand this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotsman58 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Looks like my links didn't work on my last post. Here they are: Remos E10 Doc Flight Design E10 Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Ethanol vulnerability of some plastics and seals is a small concern, corrected for the CT line anyway. It's not realistically possible to get 1+ gal of water into your tanks. Maybe if you replace your fuel caps with big open funnels and leave the plane outside near Seattle for a couple months. Even then the phase separated 'vodka' would be ~50% Ethanol, not 90% as the FD bulletin states. The real concern isn't this vodka, which you'll never see, but gum (it's a technical term). Leaving MOGAS exposed to air above 85F for prolonged periods lets gums form in the fuel and gum DOES drop octane. 100LL is much more stable in this regard. Watch out for a darker, brownish tint in old MOGAS, especially in summer. That's when you really should do a 50:50 100LL mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Scotsman58, I have some small boats with outboard engines. For many years, I have had the carbs rebuilt and engines tuned up when they would start to run poor. Usually, it took a few years after the tune-ups before the process would have to be repeated. We have E90 fuel 100% here. The last few years, I have been running the fuel out of the carbs and draining the fuel tanks each fall. Since I've done this, no more rough running engines and no tune-ups. Chanik makes the point that one would have to leave a fuel tank out in the elements in Seattle to get water in the fuel but this is almost what boaters do each year. Most leave fuel tanks exposed to rain and the high humidity on lakes 24/7. Most of the tanks have a vent which can allow rain water to get into the tank if it is not protected from the elements. This mixture is then just left in the tank overwinter and the process continues next boating season. I think that repair shops really don't help boaters by telling them to drain the carbs and fuel tanks and to use fresh fuel in the spring since doing carb rebuilds and tune-ups is a major source of income for the shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Apples and oranges as Dick says. Boats and planes live in two different environments and are exposed to water very differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozairangel Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Yes ...but if you get the ethanol out you can drink it instead of flying.......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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