What does the CTLS serial number mean?

[Big Flapper]

I'm looking at used CTLS airplanes and I have read that some changes to year models occurred in the middle of the year.

So how do I interpret the date of serial number  ?

 

Thanks

[Bill3558]

I’d call FD.  They helped me out when I was buying my 2008 CTLS.  I wanted to be sure I had the “new” aileron controls. Turned out mine was the second one made with the new controls. 

[Big Flapper]

Thanks 

I see that we are in the same state, If/when I buy one maybe we can go flying for a hanburger.

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

First number is year, then second number is month.  This post trail provides a bit of insight about window of time where it changed:

 

 

[Big Flapper]

Thanks for the info. I called FD and they couldn't give me a definite cutoff for the original aileron installation. The plane I'm looking at has the serial # of 08-04-09, I was wondering if that SN is close to your SN.

 

Thanks

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

That serial number is right at the change over time based on Tom's knowledge:

 

[Tom Baker]

I would expect that if the serial number doesn't have an "F" in front of it it is the older heavy style ailerons. It is certainly right in the time frame where the change was being made. If you could post a picture of the aileron/flap system looking in from the baggage door I could confirm.

[Big Flapper]

I live in NC and the plane is in Fl. I'll try to get a picture of the flap system.

Thanks

[NC Bill]

Don't be afraid of the stiffer aileron system. Many who fear it have never flown it.

I own one and prefer it. Unless your into aerobatics it's no big deal. I'd suggest you try it before you dislike it.

[Big Flapper]

Thanks Bill, I'll schedule a test flight and decide.

[Tom Baker]

1 hour ago, NC Bill said:

Don't be afraid of the stiffer aileron system. Many who fear it have never flown it.

I own one and prefer it. Unless your into aerobatics it's no big deal. I'd suggest you try it before you dislike it.

I've flown 2 CTLS with the stiff ailerons,  several without, plus a dozen or so CTSW's. I really don't like the stiff ailerons. 

[Skunkworks85]

My CTsw has the stiff ailerons. I do not have an opinion either way because I have never flown one without. But my issue with it is, it can be a real bear to hold in the rear quartering tail wind position ( full forward and full one side aileron. ) During taxi. If your taxi is long enough. I can find my arm relaxing and not holding it on the stops just due to the amount of force required to hold in that awkward position for an extended period of time. Of course this is relative to your upper body strength and possibly how far back you put your seat. I tend to have mine back in a reclined position, which puts my arm in full outward stretch in the full down position. Combine this with the stiff aileron takes quite a bit of force to maintain that position.

[Tom Baker]

27 minutes ago, Skunkworks85 said:

My CTsw has the stiff ailerons. I do not have an opinion either way because I have never flown one without. But my issue with it is, it can be a real bear to hold in the rear quartering tail wind position ( full forward and full one side aileron. ) During taxi. If your taxi is long enough. I can find my arm relaxing and not holding it on the stops just due to the amount of force required to hold in that awkward position for an extended period of time. Of course this is relative to your upper body strength and possibly how far back you put your seat. I tend to have mine back in a reclined position, which puts my arm in full outward stretch in the full down position. Combine this with the stiff aileron takes quite a bit of force to maintain that position.

All of the CT's that I am aware of have stiff ailerons compared to a lot of airplanes, but it is only those few CTLS's that have really stiff ailerons.

[Bill3558]

It’s the darn springs.  I don’t like them.   Instead of feeling the aerodynamic pressures, your overcoming mechanical pressure which takes away the different feel at different speeds.  It’s always the same pressure regardless. I can only guess that FD did this to eliminate over controlling.  The Remos I almost bought didn’t have springs and it was more fun to fly, but it had other disadvantages. 
Has anyone gone experimental and taken them off? 
 

By the way my serial number is 08-04-10, and I was told it was the second one made  with the lighter controls. 

[Tom Baker]

1 hour ago, Bill3558 said:

Has anyone gone experimental and taken them off? 

The springs are part of the aileron trim system. If you remove the springs you would lose aileron trim.

[Bill3558]

If the plane is rigged correctly, why do you need aileron trim?   Cessna and Piper don’t use springs or aileron trim. Just sayin. 

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

As built, and as flown (loading variations) are two different scenarios.  Seems I touch nose and aileron trim every flight, I'm a fanatic about hands off straight n level.  I've yet to touch the rudder trim in flight.  I've almost learned how much to dial the aileron trim between solo and passenger in right seat before TO.

[Big Flapper]

Appreciate the info. I'm still hoping to find a reasonable ctls or ctsw in the near future.

Thanks for all the opinions I will try to avoid the early CTLS planes.

[Tom Baker]

2 hours ago, Bill3558 said:

If the plane is rigged correctly, why do you need aileron trim?   Cessna and Piper don’t use springs or aileron trim. Just sayin. 

To counter lateral imbalance, which is more critical on a lighter airplane. Cessna and Piper are heavier so it is not as critical, plus they have a fuel selector to help with balance instead of using trim.

By the way my 1974 Piper Warrior has springs on the ailerons.

[Bill3558]

Makes sense. Thanks.

[Big Flapper]

I asked the question but here is the official answer from the FD Maintenance & Inspection Procedures Manual page 4-34

[FlyingMonkey]

My 2007 has pretty stiff ailerons *plus* the additional 2007 pitch spring, which forces the stick forward on the ground and makes the pitch heavier.  Best thing I ever did was ditch the additional pitch spring.  I was not the first to do it, so I'm not "too much" of a test pilot.  Now the pitch is light and the pitch trim wheel needs much less travel to affect pitch changes.  I have flown to at or near Vne several times and it's smooth as butter.

That doesn't help most here since I can legally make this change as an E-LSA and there were really only a few airplanes in 2007 IIRC with the additional spring.

[procharger]

You only move the stick 3/8 inch to turn plane it ain't that bad