Tried grass on my 60th birthday...

[AGLyme]

Last Sunday, met former CT owner, current Husky owner, Kent W for breakfast.  A bunch of pilots from my home field flew up as well... had a great time.  Kent then asked if I wanted to fly down the Hudson and touch down in a grass field nearby.  I had to pass on the Hudson tour as I had to help my youngest move to his new apartment.  One of my home field pilots went with us in his C-170 to the grass strip. 

Here are the links to my landing and take off... Kent took the videos.  

Takeoff:

Critiquing my landing, I remember it well.  1) Half way through base, I look down and I see a deep ravine and I unconsciously pulled up and that threw me off my pattern.  2) should have slipped on final to lose more altitude, and finally, I don't remember doing a 3 point landing, I thought I put it back on the mains but I didn't.  It was like landing on a pillow... 

On takeoff, I used 30 degrees flaps.  I didn't put the nose down quickly enough after I took off, I let the plane hang for too long... it's tough to see but there is a hill at the end of the runway and it was fun to have to fly to the left to avoid the hill.. which brought me right over a beautiful lake... a really fun flight and looking forward to practicing on grass again.  Thanks Kent !

Finally, "one of these things is not like the other"... see the pic... Kent's Husky is crazy, I watched him take off in no more than 200 feet and then pretty much straight up... 

 

[Garrett Gee]

That's fun.  I haven't had the opportunity to go into a grass strip in any aircraft, but I really want to.  Not many nice ones around my area.  I have practiced soft field takeoffs and landings in the CT though.  Also haven't done a 30 degree flaps takeoff.  What's that like.  Coming from the Cessna 172 world where 10 degrees is the max permitted takeoff flaps (as well as Diamond twins, where no flaps are used), how does the airplane feel/handle with 30 degrees of flaps on takeoff?

[AGLyme]

1 hour ago, garrettgee2001 said:

What's that like

It was completely different than the normal 15 degs flaps takeoff.  I have practiced soft/short field takeoffs using only 15 degs flaps.  In retrospect, I should have used the 15 degs flaps which is what I am used to.  I lifted off at about 42 knots and reached 52 knots very quickly and I retracted the flaps to 15 at about 60-62 knots.   I was intentionally slow in the flaps retraction from 15 to 0 due to the rising terrain in front of me. 

The plane popped up off the runway quicker than I was used to and as you can see in the video the plane movements are slower to react... at slower speeds which explains the slow wing wobble.  

The plane flew well at a 30 degrees takeoff.  low humidity, 82 degrees, you can see the sock in the vid, the wind behaved, by myself (180 lbs), 12 gals gas, airport is 675 elev... DA was probably about 2,500 that day.  I would like to hear from the short/soft field CT pros who have tried 30 degs flaps.  The POH doesn't address 30 degs flap takeoffs.  

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

The thing to keep in mind on turf is that ground varies in type, sand that is well drained and mostly firm year round, to clay that can be hard as rock when dry to soft and sloppy mud when wet.  Flaps then are used to match the need.  I'll fly 30 degrees for take off when really soft, but generally majority of the time 15 is used.  Typically always use 30 degrees for landing on grass as they are shorter strips too.

[KentWien]

Flaps 30 takeoffs are really fun in the CT. I used them when trying to get off the ground quickly, and then I lowered the nose to accelerate to a more normal climb speed and then brought the flaps to 15 or even up. I also do that same technique with the Husky. I don’t like climbing out slow in case of an engine failure, hence the pushover. 
 

I had the small wheels and wheel pants on my CTsw, which handle most any public grass runways. I avoided (or tried to avoid) anything that was wet. It can get messy in mud, and damages the runway. 
 

As always, it’s so much fun flying with you Andrew!

[AGLyme]

Darrell, we have had a drought in this region for a while now... the turf at that field was hard and the runway was relatively smooth.  

Enjoyed it immensely Kent, thanks for suggesting it.  I was expecting crazy bumps, but the big tires smoothed things out.  Can't wait to do it again.

[NC Bill]

Oh! You meant you landed on turf!

Sorry. Totally misunderstood what you tried.

[sandpiper]

Good one Bill!!

[AGLyme]

We Yankees love wise guy humor... ; )

[Runtoeat]

I've posted my technique for using full flaps for takeoff on our forum.  This is a useful exercise to do with our CT's and was taught to me by my CFI.  Many aircraft don't allow this but our CT's have adequate power to do it.  The full flap takeoff is highly usefull "tool" to use for rough or high grass fields and is fun to do.  Full power with full flaps allows much shorter distance needed to lift off the ground which results in less stress placed on the landing gear, especially the front strut, in rough terrain.  Be aware though that the airplane is under a hi drag configuration.  Should there be a loss  of power just after lifting off, a stall is very likely to occur.  As KentWein has advised, to protect for this, one should keep forward pressure on the stick to keep the nose down and stay near the ground until speed builds sufficient for 15 flaps.  This will occur quickly.  Once 15 flaps are achieved, pitch for normal climb speed and continue climb out.

[AGLyme]

Run... Would it be possible for you to re-post your short field link please?  

Kent brought me through the process and yes getting that stick down after takeoff is the absolute key to success.  I had to judge when the 30 to 15 degs transition became obvious knowing that once I flip the switch I had to again pitch the nose back down/level to keep speed... it all worked out.  I am going to practice this maneuver again as it can come in very handy.  What is it like at full gross?  

Thanks, Andrew

[Runtoeat]

Andrew, I'll look for my old post but the full flap take off procedure is basically as Kent and I have described here.  Taking off  under full flaps on our CT is like going up in an elevator.  The rise off of the field is very rapid but forward speed is slowed by the drag.  As long as full power remains, and the airplane is kept near the ground until 15 flaps and 60+ knots are achieved, all is good.  Before 60 knots and 15 flaps, if power is lost, be near the ground and ready to set down.  There are published instances where our Rotax 912 has stopped running on take off but if the CT is properly maintained and one insures that there is sufficient good quality fuel on board, this is rare.  Whether doing hi flap take offs or standard take offs, one must always be prepared for engine failure and try to have "plan B" should this occur.