Tire Tubes and Tires - 06 CTSW

[tevbax]

Well, blew the first main today. I'm looking at replacing both the tube and tire since the outer edges are pretty much gone anyways. 

4.00-6 Aero Classic is what was on it with a gold wheel. No idea what tube since it is not taken apart yet.

Suggestions? 

[WmInce]

2 hours ago, tevbax said:

. . . . 4.00-6 Aero Classic is what was on it with a gold wheel. No idea what tube since it is not taken apart yet.

Suggestions? 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/tailwheeltires7.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/aeroclassic_06-03559.ph

The later is a "Leak Guard" tube. It is heavier and a better tube than the common one.

[tevbax]

7 minutes ago, WmInce said:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/tailwheeltires7.php

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/aeroclassic_06-03559.ph

 

Thank you! I read about the heavy duty tube but couldn't piece it together. 

[WmInce]

15 minutes ago, tevbax said:

Thank you! I read about the heavy duty tube but couldn't piece it together. 

On the Aircraft Spruce and Desser sites, the tube is not described as "Leak Guard," but that's the one you will receive. It will be stamped right on the tube. I just ordered one of each not more than a month ago.

Caution: I would not advise having it shipped USPS Priority Mail. It sucks! Go with UPS or FedEx to ensure a timely and ACCOUNTABLE delivery.

Use talc on inside of tire and around tube. Inflate . . deflate . . inflate to 29 p.s.i.

[FlyingMonkey]

I just bought a couple of the non-tundra tubes.  IIRC you have to do a little detective work, they are marked 13/500-6 or similar on the websites, and may have 400-6 in parentheses.  Order from Spruce, they ship fast and are cheaper than Desser.

[tevbax]

I ordered 3 of these tubes from Aircraft Spruce - 2 to replace the ones on the mains and a spare. Also ordered 2 new tires as the OUTSIDE edges have worn off significantly. Both should deliver by Tuesday. We've been doing a lot of crosswind pattern laps, and our primary runway is concrete. 
 

Thanks for the help, truly appreciated! 

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

The camber angle tends to eat the outside quicker, you can rotate them if you want to use up what's left on the better side.  Also snag some stick-on lead weights and balance them once all remounted.

[Anticept]

If it's eating the outside of the wheel, the toe needs adjusted. Camber causes unequal slanted wear across the wheel, toe causes the inside or outside edge of the wheel to wear.

Camber isn't a big deal but toe very much is and can lead to less stable ground control.

[Tom Baker]

6 minutes ago, Anticept said:

Camber isn't a big deal but toe very much is and can lead to less stable ground control.

On the CTSW camber can be a big issue contributing to wear, and there is no real way to fix it short of switching to Matco brakes. Toe can be adjusted, and there were some CTSW's that were delivered that were really bad. The fix requires a counter bore and some hat shaped bushings, unless you replace the whole gear leg.

[tevbax]

Here’s the good tire, but the other side matches it.

[Anticept]

Warriors have the same issue, many of them like to wipe the outside of the tire. Can't adjust the camber on many of the old models, but if you take a close look and check alignment, the toe is often out too, making it far worse, and tweaking the torque link fixes some of it.

Toe wear tends to wipe the very outside of the tire first and then works its way in. Camber wear is more even and gradual. This photo looks like camber wear.

[FlyingMonkey]

19 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

On the CTSW camber can be a big issue contributing to wear, and there is no real way to fix it short of switching to Matco brakes. Toe can be adjusted, and there were some CTSW's that were delivered that were really bad. The fix requires a counter bore and some hat shaped bushings, unless you replace the whole gear leg.

I switched to Matcos, and still had to have custom wheel shims machined to correct both camber and toe in.  I was previously getting 50 landings to a set of tires, I was changing them almost monthly.

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

9 hours ago, tevbax said:

Here’s the good tire, but the other side matches it.

That is how my SW wears too, but being on grass more than pavement I'm 3 years into the current set, and not as bald.  I'll rotate them before winter and probably milk another couple years out of them.  If I flew off hard surface more I'd probably upgrade to Matco.

[Tom Baker]

13 hours ago, Anticept said:

Warriors have the same issue, many of them like to wipe the outside of the tire. Can't adjust the camber on many of the old models, but if you take a close look and check alignment, the toe is often out too, making it far worse, and tweaking the torque link fixes some of it.

Toe wear tends to wipe the very outside of the tire first and then works its way in. Camber wear is more even and gradual. This photo looks like camber wear.

I've been working on Piper Cherokees for over 30 years, and have owned a Warrior for over 25. Pipers tend to wear the inside of the tire, unless someone has over compensated with shimming on the scissors. This is due to the geometry of the axle related to the strut. The drag of the tire as it rolls on the surface will cause it to toe out due to wear in the scissors.

[Tom Baker]

12 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

I switched to Matcos, and still had to have custom wheel shims machined to correct both camber and toe in.  I was previously getting 50 landings to a set of tires, I was changing the, almost monthly.

I should clarify, that just switching to Matcos will not change camber or wear. What it does do, is provide a method to make the adjustment that is not available to the stock Marc Inegro wheels and brakes. The stock set up does allow for adjustment of toe, but there is no adjustment for camber. Also once the tow is set there is no further adjustment with the stock wheels without machining, welding, or replacing the gear leg.

[Anticept]

8 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

I've been working on Piper Cherokees for over 30 years, and have owned a Warrior for over 25. Pipers tend to wear the inside of the tire, unless someone has over compensated with shimming on the scissors. This is due to the geometry of the axle related to the strut. The drag of the tire as it rolls on the surface will cause it to toe out due to wear in the scissors.

We had it real bad, so by reshimming the torque link, it helped. It was real bad with how fast it was wearing through tires and I finally got permission to check it.

After that I told a couple other owners of old warriors and they had the link reshimmed too and it also helped.

It even reduced a little bit of the "leg stick" we were having.

It doesn't solve the slanted wear from being out of camber, but camber, unless it is REALLY bad, isn't what causes rapid tread wear, that's toe that does it.

Another way to see toe issues is tread wear is slanted but in a sawtooth pattern. Combined with camber, it can wipe the edge of tires real fast.

[FlyingMonkey]

3 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

I should clarify, that just switching to Matcos will not change camber or wear. What it does do, is provide a method to make the adjustment that is not available to the stock Marc Inegro wheels and brakes. The stock set up does allow for adjustment of toe, but there is no adjustment for camber. Also once the tow is set there is no further adjustment with the stock wheels without machining, welding, or replacing the gear leg.

You can adjust camber by using the bottom or top two washer positions.  But you have very little adjustment if you want to do camber *and* toe.  My wheels were so far out I couldn't get enough toe or camber by maxing out the allowed washers.  IIRC I needed something like 3° of camber change and 5° of toes change on each wheel.  I had a machinist CNC machine plates with taper in both axes.  My tires now last a LONG time.

Here's a pic of one of the shims:

[Tom Baker]

12 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

You can adjust camber by using the bottom or top two washer positions.  But you have very little adjustment if you want to do camber *and* toe.  My wheels were so far out I couldn't get enough toe or camber by maxing out the allowed washers.  IIRC I needed something like 3° of camber change and 5° of toes change on each wheel.  I had a machinist CNC machine plates with taper in both axes.  My tires now last a LONG time.

It can be done with a combination of washers, but shims will work too. I have installed and adjusted several. I have also adjusted toe on the stock set up, but it is a pain in the ass, unless you are installing a new gear leg.

[FlyingMonkey]

37 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

It can be done with a combination of washers, but shims will work too. I have installed and adjusted several. I have also adjusted toe on the stock set up, but it is a pain in the ass, unless you are installing a new gear leg.

There is a maximum of two washers per station according to Matco.  I needed more than that.

[Runtoeat]

Has anyone bought a tube and tire for the front Tundra tire?  4.00-6 tire.  What size tube is needed?  Does Aircraft spruce sell both tube and tire?

[Tom Baker]

Tube, https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/aeroclassic_06-03559.php

Tire, https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/13-400-6.php?clickkey=5691056

[Roger Lee]

Look up on this post Sept. 9 post

[Runtoeat]

Thanks Tom & Roger.  Working with my front strut.  Roger, I got notice that the front pucks are arriving today.  Thanks.  -Dick