On the practicality and legality of an 850lb empty weight CTLS

[Michaelb]

I'm looking at CTLSes. Some of which push 850lbs+ empty. I'm curious to hear from owners on the practicality and legality of this as a two place aircraft. I'm only marginally above the FAA standard person at 180lbs, but I see managing the weight in such an aircraft when you want to take someone else with you frequently as being a pain in the ass. Two 180 pounders, some odds and ends, and there isn't a lot left for fuel. What do you owners do practically to manage this? Only keep 10-15 gallons of fuel in the plane and add or subtract as necessary? How much of a pain is this to manage or are you all lone rangers and it doesn't matter? I've heard from time to time with a wink and a nod that, "well it's built to go way over 1320..." Well good luck with that and your dealings with insurance and the FAA if you end up in an NTSB report. I'm just genuinely curious how some actual owners manage this and if they have any regrets going with an aircraft with such a low useful load.

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

An 850 lb empty LSA will be a struggle with two occupants, no getting around it.  Can't help you with advise on how one manages this, can offer suggestion to consider a SW with 711 lb empty weight (basic steam gage simple panel), then update it to a single screen modern EFIS with no weight impact.

[Bill3558]

Hasn’t been a problem for me. Recent 400 mile cross country with the wife and 30 gallons of fuel put us 6 lbs  over at takeoff. Plane didn’t care. Empty weight is 838. One tank of gas. 
Sure, if I’m taking a 200 lb plus guy, we need to carry 15 gallons or less but that’s 3 hours of fuel in my CTLSi.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Have you looked at CTSWs?  They are a little less refined, but they are also significantly lighter.  Mine has an empty weight around 735lb.  I've been very happy with mine and it will carry me (190lb with all the stuff in my pockets), a passenger, plenty of fuel, and bags...and still be under gross.

I will mention the elephant in the room, which is that there are a *lot* of heavier LSA out there flying over gross.  I'm not advocating that at all, but it's just a fact that there are a lot of airplanes out there flying in that condition.  I'd bet 90% of CTLS fly at least some portion of their lives over gross.  It's certainly one of the reasons that the FAA is working to revise the LSA rules...they'd rather have pilots flying heavier airplanes within limits than very light airplanes over gross.

[Michaelb]

Yep - I'm shopping CTSWs for that reason (lower GW). Yes, I understand it seems people fly them over gross all the time. I'm not picking on the CTLS necessarily as a lot of Carbon Cubs have the same issue. What I'm more interested in for those that care to stay legal, how are they managing it and how much of a pain is it? I assume folks just keep minimal fuel/stuff in the plane and add as necessary - this just seems like it would be a real headache.

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

52 minutes ago, Michaelb said:

this just seems like it would be a real headache

It's a safety issue too, I REALLY like having plenty of fuel, options to divert due to weather, buying rec fuel where available, etc.  Not having fuel on my home base, filling up and flying in with 34 gallons buys me a lot of evening hops before I'm having to refuel.

[Towner]

My SW is 736 empty with the Dynon 100/120 package. Me, my wife, 25 lbs of baggage and full fuel. My wife would never sit in the plane long enough to go through 30 gallons of fuel, so dropping fuel to add baggage isn’t an issue either. I’ve been very happy with the payload and it beats the heck out of a Cessna 150!

[FlyingMonkey]

One good thing to note...with the CT series, you don't usually need full fuel...33+ gallons is a LOT when you only burn 4-5.5gph.  I usually fly with 20-25g in the airplane, that's way more than I need for an evening hop.  If I'm going on a long CC I will fill to 30-32 gallons.  I flew like that to a buddy's strip in north Florida, 259nm each way, and that fuel got me there AND back with a comfortable margin to spare at 5300-5400rpm.

Some people always like to take off with full fuel, but for local flights in a CT it's just leaving performance and weight on the table for no good benefit.  You can even do long CCs and save 54lb of useful load by just flying with 25g of fuel instead of 34g and making an extra stop.  An RV-12 only has a 20g tank, so you're just hobbling yourself to Van's range. 

[Bill3558]

I should have added that I have 2- 5 gallon fuel containers ( Sure Can) for the Mogas I run.  It’s not difficult to alter the fuel load for the mission.  I have drained fuel a couple of times from the header tank drain when I needed to lighten the plane. 
Sure Cans are nice because they drain from the bottom, so you can just put it on the wing ( I use a piece of clean carpet as a pad) and they will drain while you do other stuff. 
 

[Mike Koerner]

Hi Bill,

1) How do you keep the trigger on you Sure Can open while you "do other stuff"?

2) Is there any fuel seepage from the base of the spout while stored full of fuel?

3) It sounds like it's not normally vented. What happens if the fuel stored in it gets hot and builds pressure?

4) have you ever tried taking an empty one up to altitude in the plane? Can it stand the pressure differential without a vent, or can you leave the fill cap loose?

Thanks

 

 

[Bill3558]

1- I put the spout cap underneath the lever.

2- No

3- Loosed the filler cap to vent

4- See #3

[Bill3558]

The Honda Ridgeline is great for this operation because the tanks fit in the bed hatch. 
yes, my plates say VFR-ONLY

[Mike Koerner]

Thanks Bill. I bought a couple from Amazon.