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I'LL JUST SAY IT LIKE IT IS ...


MileHighCTLS

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I must begin by saying that this forum is a tremendous asset to the Flight Design and light sport community, filled with knowledgable posts that are packed with insights. I must also say that the people at FlightDesignUSA are nice people. But I also need to say this: The factory support for Flight Design vessels trails way behind other aircraft – certified, light-sport and even many experimental brands!

I can not believe the low-level unprofessional website, documentation and parts sourcing provided by FlightDesignUSA.com. I am also astounded at the lack of authorized service centers and the inaccuracy of the ones listed on their site. There are so many things I could bring up but here are just a few ... there is a complete lack of consistent tutorials on important things like wing removal, BRS parachute repacks, five-year hose replacements, etc.

God love the guys and gals on this site who do their best to simplify procedures and help each other out. But really, this forum (or any forum) should not be the primary source of maintenance and repair information for airplanes. Flight Design should be way out ahead of all issues providing updated information, parts sourcing and a knowledge base of its own!

By the way, there are a myriad of APs and conventional aircraft maintenance shops who won't go near CTLS or other CT craft. Yet, I can pull my 1946 Ercoupe in, or even my Xenon gyroplane, or Piper Cruiser ... and they lay down the welcome mat.  Why? Because tryin to find clear and concise maintenance information is not clear nor concise. They are shocked at the schlock.

I have owned dozens of aircraft over my 45-years of flying, in all price ranges, including jets and rotorcraft. Never ever have I experienced the inconsistency of information and support that is common to Flight Design. Hell, even most experimental planes have better support.

Has anyone else felt like they've been left out in the desert to fen for themselves? Please don't take this as a lack of appreciation for this forum. In fact, if it wasn't for this forum, I'd consider making my plane a planter.

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An old Ercoupe can be repaired with good ol AC 43.13 and that's almost it. Pretty much anything 60's and older are like that. 70's and newer saw a considerable rise of maintenance manuals and regulatory oversight on providing said information.

One of the downsides to light sport is the myriad of additional regulatory complexity, but relatively little actual oversight. Leads to a lot of confusing gray areas.

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This forum has some knowledgeable regulars, Tom Baker in particular, but most of us would agree that all forums need to be read with a critical eye and any information verified before being applied to one's own airplane.

I was under the impression that FlightDesignUSA is a dealer website, operated by Airtime Aviation in Tulsa, not a Flight Design company website.  Just as Lockwood and Leading Edge Air Foils are dealer sites, not Rotax sites.  That being the case I am not sure what control Flight Design has over FlightDesignUSA.  The Gutmans provide very useful service to me, but I know them and call them as needed.

Specialized aircraft are typically supported at a few specialized centers.  I used Kent Johnson, a dealer at Stanton, MN, for my CTSW until I went to school.  My friends with warbirds use special shops.  Tube and fabric airplanes aren't repaired just anywhere anymore.  Experimental carbon fiber owners can get help from sailplane shops or the owner assist shops that build carbon fiber planes.  You can't get your Cirrus annualed at just any mechanic.   

My observation (there I go, offering up my own comments) is that non-US companies are paranoid - no, they're terrified - of US litigation and they keep as big a firewall between themselves and their US customers as possible.  The prime example may be Rotax.  This is only my impression and I'm not stating it as a fact, so no need to put any stock in it.  I don't think an SLSA support in the US is like a Chevrolet or Ram dealership where the mother company calls the shots.

I had the good fortune to take the 3 week Repairman Light Sport Maintenance course from Rainbow Aviation and found it very valuable in giving me the information to talk with conventional A&P mechanics when I needed their help (but of course I mostly do my own maintenance).  If conventional A&P would attend such a course they'd learn all they need - including how to pull a wing.  They don't want to take the time and expense to learn skills they will only use a couple of times a year and one can't blame them.  

Rotax initially demanded that engine work be done by Rotax trained mechanics.  The FAA stopped that but many mechanics got the word and don't want to work on them.

I might like to see more detail in FD manuals, but for the most part I don't find them misleading.  FD information can be very inconsistent when one relies on web forums and one is reading comments by people with a wide variety of understanding and training.  For example, on this forum you'll regularly see frequent posters who advocate using non-OEM approved parts for SLSA aircraft.

Now, if you were talking about Pipistrel, I'd agree the factory support is inadequate and that is one reason I sold my Taurus motor glider.

There is no doubt that SLSA and ELSA are a square peg in a round hole when the round hole is the conventional US aircraft support structure, but much of the reason for that is the local mechanic is already busy and doesn't want to spend the time and money to learn skills he'll only apply a few times a year.  I don't look for support from them.

 

 

 

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I have no issue maintaining a Flight Design. Parts are controlled by the manufacturer and there are no secondary parts availability.  This is a problem with all LSA aircraft and there are not enough ELSA aircraft to interest a parts manufacturer. Certified shops do not have the knowledge to work on a Rotax and will not spend the time and money to do so. Most are overloaded with work as it is and good A&P's are scarce, almost non existent,  and you can forget avionics. The FAA is not interested in providing info on LSA for A&P's and IA's, they have told me that personally. I suppose I find working on a Flight Design a non issue due to maintaining aircraft for 50 years, I find them much simpler than a lot of certified. As far a data is concerned I have not had an issue with it, if something is missing I can find it. Just remember a J3 maintenance manual is only 11 pages long, mostly rigging info. I am working on a T28 right now and the manuals are poor so I have to make a lot of phone calls to experts on the R1820 engine, try to get factory support on that, nothing is easy.

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13 hours ago, MileHighCTLS said:

I can not believe the low-level unprofessional website, documentation and parts sourcing provided by FlightDesignUSA.com. I am also astounded at the lack of authorized service centers and the inaccuracy of the ones listed on their site. There are so many things I could bring up but here are just a few ... there is a complete lack of consistent tutorials on important things like wing removal, BRS parachute repacks, five-year hose replacements, etc.

First off, I have been involved with Flight Design aircraft since 2007 when I bought my first CTSW. Since then I have been a dealer, and more importantly a service center. I have done factory service and composite training. I have also done and keep current my Rotax training. When I have needed factory support I have never had an issue. The maintenance manuals and parts manuals are fairly detailed, and available free online. The maintenance manual has a very descriptive instructions for wing installation and removal is basically the opposite minus draining the fuel. My first wing removal I read the manual, and then called someone who had done it before to see if the manual missed anything. The removal and re-installation went without a hitch. There are very detailed instructions for the BRS parachute removal and installation. The rubber replacement is a Rotax thing, and while there is not a very detailed instructions on the process, they very clearly list what is required.

I have never found parts to be an issue. Most of the normal parts required during maintenance are Rotax or other sub part manufactures. For many of the parts the manual list the size and specification for the parts. When I have needed Flight Design specific parts they have almost always had them available here in the states for quick delivery. I think there was once where we discussed having something shipped priority from Europe. Right now since Flight Design's primary manufacturing is in the Ukraine specialized parts are a little harder to come by.

As far as shops working on the airplanes. Shops are going to work on what they are comfortable with. I wouldn't take my Taylorcraft to a shop that works on Cessna's or jets. I wouldn't take a jet to a shop that works on Cubs. With the CT being composite and Rotax powered many shops are not going to be comfortable working on them. As an owner I would not be comfortable asking them to work on them either. Finding a mechanic is a problem. If you can find one with Rotax training you should be able to get everything else lined out.

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Regarding oil purging:

 

Also, I find that FDUSA support is fantastic, and the new owners of flight design germany (Lift Air) to be a lot better for support.

Old flight design was a pain in the butt on multiple occasions, not to mention the bankruptcy and what feels like what would have been outright fraud on their part by continuing to collect deposits despite the inability to deliver and releasing those claims that this was all rumor. My airplane sat for over a year waiting on parts. I have no idea if those depositors were ever made right. To be clear though: the current owners have nothing to do with this, that was the old management.

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On 11/21/2022 at 11:00 PM, Madhatter said:

I have no issue maintaining a Flight Design. Parts are controlled by the manufacturer and there are no secondary parts availability.  This is a problem with all LSA aircraft and there are not enough ELSA aircraft to interest a parts manufacturer. Certified shops do not have the knowledge to work on a Rotax and will not spend the time and money to do so. Most are overloaded with work as it is and good A&P's are scarce, almost non existent,  and you can forget avionics. The FAA is not interested in providing info on LSA for A&P's and IA's, they have told me that personally. I suppose I find working on a Flight Design a non issue due to maintaining aircraft for 50 years, I find them much simpler than a lot of certified. As far a data is concerned I have not had an issue with it, if something is missing I can find it. Just remember a J3 maintenance manual is only 11 pages long, mostly rigging info. I am working on a T28 right now and the manuals are poor so I have to make a lot of phone calls to experts on the R1820 engine, try to get factory support on that, nothing is easy.

I'm kind of on the other end of the spectrum.  I had no experience maintaining an airplane until I bought my CTSW.  I doggedly read the forums and picked up information where I could.  I was frustrated by the lack of maintenance options locally, so I converted the airplane to ELSA, got an inspection rating, and I have been very happy doing my own maintenance since that time.  There are things I would not do like heavy engine work, but so far I have performed a lot of maintenance tasks on my own:

* 5-year Rubber Change and Oil Purge
* BRS Parachute & Rocket removal & installation
* Replaced both ignition modules
* Replaced the Neuform prop with e-Props
* Wing pull and sight tube replacement
* Matco Wheel & Brake Conversion
* Rebuilt the Bing Carbs
* Removed & Replaced Horizontal Stabilator
* Added ADS-B & replaced Garmin 496 with iFly 740B
* Repaired cracked muffler shroud
* I'm about to remove the gearbox for overhaul
* LOTS of small tasks and repairs.

If you choose to, you can do most maintenance on these airplanes, they're not that complicated.  Of course there are gotchas and things to be careful of, but you can get 95% of the information you need from the awesome resources on this forum.  If you prefer to just throw money at other people and have the maintenance just happen, then your options are more limited and a lot depends on where you live and what resources are nearby.

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I am of similar opinion as Tom, Corey, Jim, Madhatter and Andy. In fact, my background maintaining airplanes is very similar to Andy.

Although an aircraft owner since 1973, they were mostly Cessna products and all maintained by others. I did basic owner maintenance such as oil changes and tire replace/repair but that was all.

Immediately after buying my 2007 CTSW I went to Rainbows 3 week course and several Rotax courses. With that training, along with this forum and several contacts, I have felt comfortable maintaining this aircraft. Support from FDUSA has been excellent.

Sure, I've had a few moments of unhappiness along the way but, overall, I've been a happy camper.

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