Chuck Posted March 12, 2023 Report Share Posted March 12, 2023 A regulations-type question for the hive mind: If I want to remake the actual aluminum panels that hold the instruments in place in my '06 CTSW S-LSA, am I allowed to just fabricate something using aluminum sheet, or do I have to buy the Flight Designs part and then start cutting on it? I'm thinking I'd like to make it out of black-anodized aluminum to look similar to GlennM's panel: Is such a thing allowed if I'm still SLSA and not experimental? -Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted March 12, 2023 Report Share Posted March 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Chuck said: A regulations-type question for the hive mind: If I want to remake the actual aluminum panels that hold the instruments in place in my '06 CTSW S-LSA, am I allowed to just fabricate something using aluminum sheet, or do I have to buy the Flight Designs part and then start cutting on it? I'm thinking I'd like to make it out of black-anodized aluminum to look similar to GlennM's panel: Is such a thing allowed if I'm still SLSA and not experimental? -Chuck It is a sheet of standard aluminum , it is not structural in any way and in the end the plane belongs to you , not to Flight Design … I would say connect the dots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 I have an avionic's shop at my field that has done this on CT's over the years when owner upgrade to Dynon's or better instrumentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennM Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 I had the laser cutting company source the aluminum, anodize, cut, and etch the instrument panel sections. FDUSA gave me an MRA with the CAD files. I had to pay for Arian's time to update the CTSW files to match my plane. In the end, they were really close with not much asjustment needed. I think I asked for 6061T6 .060" thick aluminum to be anodized on both sides. As has been mentioned on here many times before, for SLSA, you need the MRA to document and approve changes from the original manufacturing of the aircraft. I think the new FDUSA, (Airtime? I can't remember) can take my old MRA and update it for you. The CAD files are in the forum somewhere, so you don't have to pay, like I did, for them. Good Luck. I am still very happy with the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunkworks85 Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 For what its worth, I had a composite company quote waterjet 3mm carbon sheets to fit my panel. Cost was rather reasonable(this is only for the 3 on the mushroom, Not the flap area) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 The cutting quote doesn't surprise me, but that's some expensive CF panels. Can't picture getting it cheaper though from abroad... shipping costs would add up quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 Use 1/8" aluminum, buy a $99 table jig saw at harbor freight. Been making panels for 40 years on all types of planes. Use the original panels for blanks with screw holes. Just takes a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 Amazon has phenolic sheets that are really cheap. If you get the panel stickers printed at a vinyl shop, you can just stick it over top. There's something said for just having someone else cut it though. DIY through the whole process is great if you don't know how to work a CAD program, but my finesse with a jigsaw is questionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 You go too far in the weeds, it's really easy. Don't waste your time on phenolic, there's no point in using it, you just can't abuse it like aluminum. The original panels were junk in my opinion, no other planes use it except lsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 I do agree that phenolic is junk for this. Still, in case someone wants the original material... That's what it is. Laminated phenolic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted March 14, 2023 Report Share Posted March 14, 2023 I did my panel with these guys https://www.frontpanelexpress.com for about $700 with my own T6 aluminum. It was not for a Flight Design plane and I did not have a dxf file for the outside shape so I ordered square panels and cut the exact shape myself ( after tracing the actual panel I have in the plane )- I ordered these panels painted, powder coated and with etched labels so I had to clear coat them with matte coat but that was easy enough for about $30 with two part clear coat. It looks pretty nice. Panels as they arrived and in process of installing … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted March 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2023 I'm probably going way overboard on this, but I'm trying to do as much of it as I can myself with the toys in the basement. I was able to dig up some CAD models on the forum to get me the proper (hopefully) outline, and then have been doing the instrument layout in Solidworks: Then I'm cutting them out of some thin MDF on the CNC router just to do a fit check of the instruments and in the plane: Then there's a local anodize shop that I think I can get to coat the panels once they're cut to final shape, and I've got access to a laser etcher that I'm planning to use for all the markings and labels. If there are any other CTSW owners out there who are looking to do the same thing, now would be the time - it wouldn't take too much additional work for me to crank out more than 1 set of these things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted March 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2023 Does anyone know how the carb heat and cabin heat cables were re-located like this (I pulled this from an image posted by GrassStripFlyBoy): Thanks, Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted March 14, 2023 Report Share Posted March 14, 2023 45 minutes ago, Chuck said: Does anyone know how the carb heat and cabin heat cables were re-located like this (I pulled this from an image posted by GrassStripFlyBoy): Thanks, Chuck For my carb heat and cabin heat controls I fitted a micarta reinforcement behind the upper panel and used epoxy to secure it. Then had to re-rig the cables, it was pretty easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 14, 2023 Report Share Posted March 14, 2023 The one pictured is a molded fiberglass piece from Flight Design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted March 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2023 Awesome - thanks for the info Tom. I'll reach out to FDUSA about getting that piece to relocate my cables. I've finished cutting out the dummy panels from MDF and confirmed fit with the components going in them. Now to check fit in the airplane... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted March 17, 2023 Report Share Posted March 17, 2023 A few bits of information, strike a level in your plane for the EFIS horizon orientation, it's not square to the vertical line on right edge of panel. Secondly, place some healthy radii on the back edges of the inserts, or they will scratch the black of panel during install and removal. Ensure the mounting hole screws align well to rivnuts, you don't want to jack this up and cross thread a screw, wise to start these by finger and don't force anything. The bottom left steam gage may require clearing the flange on panel fiberglass - don't be afraid to hack some clearance as required on that panel return. When installing it's nice to design the pitot system with provisions for quick install and removal. I made a small table to place in front of panel that supports the panel during service, remove screws and then the panel can lay forward on the table, otherwise you're always fumbling to hold the panel while trying to disconnect things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 17, 2023 Report Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, GrassStripFlyBoy said: I made a small table to place in front of panel that supports the panel during service, remove screws and then the panel can lay forward on the table, otherwise you're always fumbling to hold the panel while trying to disconnect things. For service I just lay the panel out in front of the control stick. In 17 years working on these I have only disconnected the pitot static lines once that I remember. Then I was removing the whole mushroom to do a composite repair for a hard landing on the nose gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2023 I finally got the speeds and feeds figured out to cut aluminum on my router. First panel is cut: The other ones should go a lot quicker. Next up I have to learn how to program the laser engraver for all the labels. I found a font called Futura, which is apparently what they used for all the panels in the Apollo spacecraft so I’m going to try using that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted April 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2023 Laser etched markings on the lower center panel: The actual lasering was pretty quick (10 mins or so) but it took me forever to figure out how to do the programming in CorelDraw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted June 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2023 Finally got them all cut out and laser etched: I’m thinking I may wait until the snow flies to actually do the install. Hopefully by then I’ll have my LSRM cert and can legally do the work and sign it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 6, 2023 Report Share Posted June 6, 2023 Badass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 How did you get your label etching to line up with all of your holes? Did you do one cut out at a time lining them up before you started the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 9 hours ago, Vic said: How did you get your label etching to line up with all of your holes? Did you do one cut out at a time lining them up before you started the job? You do it in software using various alignment/spacial distribution tools … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 10 hours ago, Vic said: How did you get your label etching to line up with all of your holes? Did you do one cut out at a time lining them up before you started the job? Newer technology and software makes this nearly as simple as hooking up a paper printer to your PC. The graphics are drawn (or clip / cut / copied into) any basic software, microsoft paint on the lowest of ends, to simple freeware drawing programs, to whatever advanced software one wishes. Ultimately a graphic image of the individual hole location / feature is loaded to the laser as .jpg , .bmp, etc. The image can be scaled 100% wise to the size one wishes, my basic laser allows me to key in a width or height. Laser does a low light outline preview not burning, the panel is manually moved until you like the location, hit burn - and presto, it's there. What I described was process using a $200 laser, other posts can be found on my past project. My process is limited to a weak cheap laser and painted aluminum, won't burn anodized stock, but the process would be similar in a larger machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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