Interested in starting my CT Journey

[Rahul Deshmukh]

Hello Everyone, 

I live in Brooklyn, NY and looking to get into the world of flying. I thought I'd want to start with a SPL and maybe work my way to a PPL. Along my research I came across the CT Series and it seems like the right mission fit right now. Now, to make it happen I need two things at a high level. One, access to a CT. Potentially, I could look into buying one and find a GA airport within a reasonable distance to store it. Any advice on sources to acquire one? I would like to stay at $100,000 or lower. Second, I need a local CFI. Are there any CFIs in the NYC area who I could contact? 

As a more general question. Does this even make sense? Would I be better off acquiring something like a Cessna 150, which I imagine would be logistically easier. More planes / more CFIs etc. 

Any other thoughts/ideas welcome. 

Thanks In Advance,
Rahul. 

[Madhatter]

The CT is an amazing plane with incredible performance for 100 hp. The main issue is it must be kept in a hangar and rotax maintenance may not be easily available. The issue with a Cessna 150 is that it is old technology,  most likely high time, maybe poorly maintained, prone to corrosion on the coast, and slow. If you can get a hangar I would go with a CT. The engine maintenance is where you will have to find someone,  the airframe can be handled by any decent A&P. I've owned and maintained a lot of different aircraft and am still very impressed with the CT. The only other issue is finding a CT instructor, it's more of a demanding plane to land for a student pilot, a 150 has a much more forgiving landing gear and maybe a good plane for initial training at a local flight school.

[Towner]

To me, this is a hard question to answer without knowing more about what you plan to accomplish with flying. It sounds like you aren’t doing this as a career move. Upon receiving a SPL or PPL, is your goal just to go on local flights, or take longer cross country flights? Do you have a family?

Way back before SPL existed, I decided I wanted to learn to fly, but had no clue what I’d do with a PPL. After about 15 hours of instruction, upon the recommendation of a friend, I bought a Cherokee to complete my training. Ended up being the perfect first airplane for me. After getting my PPL, I discovered that I was a traveling guy. I had a family of 4 and we traveled all over the western US together in the Cherokee. I put 800 hours on it and sold it for substantially more than I bought it for. It was a great training airplane and a great low time PP airplane. I bought a Mooney after the Cherokee, but I’m glad gained a reasonable amount of experience in the Cherokee before the upgrade. I’m afraid that due to my family situation, if I would’ve bought a 2 seat plane, my flying would have dwindled and I might have quit flying.
 

So, what do you expect to do with a plane when you get an spl or ppl?

For a 2 seat airplane, I think the 150 is a better trainer. It’s cheap to buy, easy to fly, easy to find maintenance, easy to find instruction and can be stored outside. The problem is it’s slow, cramped, old and boring. Great trainer , but I wouldn’t want one as a personal airplane after getting my certificate.

I think the biggest problem with the CT is storage of the plane. While it’s fine to sit in the sun during trips, it needs to be stored out of the sun on a day to day basis. I think finding maintenance and training in it won’t be to bad. As far as maintenance, I make a 4 hour flight, 2 states away for my annual (condition) inspection or any serious maintenance work. It gets me to an expert and gives me an excuse to fly a nice cross country. Minor stuff can be done locally.

If you only need 2 seats, the CT is an amazing airplane. It’s roomy, sporty, and fast enough (faster than my Cherokee) for cross country flights. Except for the parachute and 5 year hose change, maintenance and fuel are cheap. It’s much more modern than and old 150 too. It is just a blast to fly around home, but a good cross country airplane too. Easily more fun than other airplanes I’ve owned. 

It will also allow you to get that SPL before a PPL. So many people start, but never complete their PPL training. Get the SPL first and you can do almost anything someone with a PPL can do (I do miss flying at night). Once you have your SPL, you are free to go explore and see what flying offers you. This will encourage you to continue and finish your PPL if you choose. Of course, owning and airplane vs renting you’ll have a much better chance of completing the training.

Buying your own airplane to do your training in is the best way to go if you can afford the purchase. But if you are gonna keep it after training, what do you want it to do. Again, an 150 would get pretty disappointing for me, but I love flying my CT and what it offers. And if you have a family, skip the two seat plane and SPL and get a four seat trainer and a PPL. 

[Rahul Deshmukh]

Thanks for the replies Towner  and Madhatter. Good to know that the CT cannot be stored outside. But, that does push up the cost of ownership and have to keep that in mind. But it is clear that a CT will be a lot more fun and rewarding. And I certainly would not mind making a longish annual flight for maintenance. So eventually, my plan would be to get one. I do plan to fly a lot both around the area and cross country. And I do want to fly a lot. I don't envision flying with more than one passenger in the foreseeable future. The big hurdle is finding a local CFI and it wouldn't make sense unless I have that lined up. 

Even if I get a 150 I would only use it to train and get some experience. Since I am in a position to buy one, it is one of the ideas I am kicking around. Of course, getting a PPL is a much bigger commitment. So far I am adamant about wanting to buy a plane v/s renting one for training. I feel it will force me to follow through and make training scheduling easier. 

Thanks again. Your comments do reinforce my belief that a 150 just wouldn't cut it over the longer run and the CT is really the way to go.  

Rahul

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

Owned two 150's over past 20 years, clean well kept one's can be found but bring a premium and sell fast - my last sold in one day.  They are great for training, but almost too good - probably one of the easiest aircraft to fly / land.  They will check the box of getting PPL, beyond that they are local hop fun toys.  I did some shorter cross country and you will hate any headwind.  Payload is decent but cabin is very narrow, will need a smaller size CFI.

Four years of CT now, no comparison.  And despite learning to land (or rather land well) being a touch more challenging, you'll have developed airmanship skills that make you a much sharper pilot (stick and rudder).  CT will suit you beyond training much better, or prepare you for stepping up into something else.

Lastly, FAA revamping the light sport catagory this summer, will be opening up more GA planes (likely some 4 seaters).  If you're going with standard catagory aircraft / PPL, might want to keep eye on that - say a Cherokee 140 is compliant - you could still pick Sport Pilot as first step and continue on to PPL in same machine, in a machine that is not LSA today.

[NC Bill]

Brooklyn! OK.Assuming that's where you'll be residing during training...

The first 2 things on your list should be:

1- where can I keep my plane? Both Inside and Outside storage. Cost and  accessibility.

2- who and where is my instructor? 150 and CT instructors are most likely different people. Finf one willing and able to train in your plane.

3- who will maintain my plane? CTs and their ROTAX require different mx than the 150. And usually more often than just an annual.

These answers may influence if not dictate your choice.

 

 

[Towner]

If you can find a place to store it, and only need two seats, I still think a CT would be a great airplane for you.

I think you can work around maintenance and finding an instructor. If you have the plane, have an instructor spend a weekend in it with one of the guys from this site. All airplanes fly similarly, CT’s just have some quirks. A pilot who flys a CT regularly, even if not an instructor, should be able to get your instructor up to speed pretty quickly. Most instructors are happy to become proficient in a new plane. That’s the great thing about owning your own airplane to train in, the flexibility of training or even training the instructor.

Basic maintenance can still be done by you and a standard A&P. Any maintenance issue and how to repair it can be found on this site. This site, and the information provided by experts is always here. There are a handful of experts that answer questions daily on this site. They are amazing.

Rotax engines are getting more common daily, so more shops are becoming familiar with them. Most maintenance issues won’t ground the plane, allowing you to fly it to a specialist when more difficult problems occur.

I think we are all hoping for changes in LSA when Mosaic happens. When it happens, and what it will change is still an unknown. Don’t wait for it. Buy a plane and start your journey!

[procharger]

I have 2007 CTSW and 2011 CTLS fully loaded I may sell one of them 757-642-4530

[Rahul Deshmukh]

Thanks a lot for the the input GrassStripFlyBoy, NC Bill, Towner. I am now convinced that the CT is the way to go. I am now in the process of speaking with GA airports in the area and figuring out the parking / hanger situation. Unfortunately, there is little online information about availability/price. Any thoughts on locating a CFI? I found some online sites that offer CFI searches. Is that the way to go? Any advice appreciated. Also looking for advice on securing financing (I would not necessarily need it but it'd be useful to get an idea) and finding an insurance provider. 

In general, I am not that worried about the maintenance situation. As Towner suggests, I could do some basic maintenance and I don't mind flying to a maintenance location within a few hours from my base. Two or three times annually should not be an issue. 

Thanks for reaching out procharger. Focusing on getting the storage, and CFI situation sorted out before looking into acquiring a CT. Will contact you after I have that worked out. 

Thanks again everyone. The community here really helped me make my decision. 

Rahul 

 

[NC Bill]

Suggest you contact the FBOs at the airports within acceptable distance for your training, and ask them for contact info on flight instructors AND storage info. Some FBOs MAY have options such as monthly tie down or multi plane hangers.

[Towner]

Once you have an airport picked out, sometimes just asking other locals can help you find an instructor. Having your own plane usually allows you to fly more frequently. Make sure you find an instructor that can reasonably meet your schedule. My airport has a handful of instructors that don’t do it full time, but are usually willing to have a couple of students.

[Tip]

Seek out a EAA Chapter in your area. Those guys will steer you in the right direction.

[FlyingMonkey]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:18 AM, Madhatter said:

The CT is an amazing plane with incredible performance for 100 hp. The main issue is it must be kept in a hangar and rotax maintenance may not be easily available. The issue with a Cessna 150 is that it is old technology,  most likely high time, maybe poorly maintained, prone to corrosion on the coast, and slow. If you can get a hangar I would go with a CT. The engine maintenance is where you will have to find someone,  the airframe can be handled by any decent A&P. I've owned and maintained a lot of different aircraft and am still very impressed with the CT. The only other issue is finding a CT instructor, it's more of a demanding plane to land for a student pilot, a 150 has a much more forgiving landing gear and maybe a good plane for initial training at a local flight school.

I agree with all of these points.  I don't really see needing a hangar as a downside; I think all airplanes should be hangared.  Airplanes out on the ramp just decay far more quickly.  Sun, heat, moisture, and wind (abrasive particles) are brutal on paint, plexiglass, upholstery, instruments, and tires.  Look at any airplanes that sit for a couple of full years on the ramp, and ask yourself how many of them make you say "wow, that is a really nice airplane"...

The performance of the CT series is quite phenomenal for a 100hp airplane.  As long as your mission is 1-2 people in VFR conditions, it's very hard to beat.  Most two seaters have lower useful load, higher fuel burn, lower fuel capacity & range, less sophisticated equipment, or all of the above.  The Diamond DA-20s at my local flight school have *exactly* the same useful load as my CTSW (585lb) and about the same performance...but they weigh 445lb more empty, have higher fuel consumption, lower range, lower climb rate, and much worse short field capability.  Plus the CT has a BRS parachute! 

The CT is a little harder to land than a Cessna, but once you figure it out you're golden and many other airplanes will be "easy mode" comparatively.  You have to use rudder in flight and coordinate your turns, you can't just plant your feet; it's kind of like a Cub in that regard.  You have to pay attention to the wind because the CT is very lightweight.  In other words, the CT makes you a better pilot.

The Rotax engine is a little harder to find people to work on it, but with a CT you can convert to Experimental and do all your own maintenance as many of us have done.  If that's not your cup of tea, at least the Rotax seems to have less major problems over its life than many certified engines.  You will almost never hear a Rotax owner complaining about having to replace a cylinder every 300-600 hours.  It's mostly just scheduled maintenance and regular oil changes.

Good luck!

[Towner]

I’m glad you posted that. Since my CT seems slow, it’s nice to see that I beat someone in an important category…I have 1 pound more useful load than you! Hurray!

Otherwise, I agree with everything you wrote. The only exception might be is that if you can’t get a hanger, at least shoot for a shaded tie down. Makes a huge difference vs parking directly under the sun.

[FlyingMonkey]

12 hours ago, Towner said:

I’m glad you posted that. Since my CT seems slow, it’s nice to see that I beat someone in an important category…I have 1 pound more useful load than you! Hurray!

Otherwise, I agree with everything you wrote. The only exception might be is that if you can’t get a hanger, at least shoot for a shaded tie down. Makes a huge difference vs parking directly under the sun.

You have a 586lb useful?  My CT is very light, and I dropped 8lb going to an E-Prop...yours must be a featherweight.

I agree, a shaded tie down is far better than sitting out in the full weather.  You gotta do what you gotta do, but if you have an airplane you need to get it in a hangar at earliest opportunity IMO.

[Towner]

Ok, I fibbed. I actually have one pound less useful load than you. I’ve never weighed it myself, but that is what is documented.

[FlyingMonkey]

4 hours ago, Towner said:

Ok, I fibbed. I actually have one pound less useful load than you. I’ve never weighed it myself, but that is what is documented.

NEVER weight it unless required by the FAA.  Under most circumstances FAA accepts calculated weight, so if you make changes calculate the weight and CG, don't put it on scales.  I don't know anybody who has weighed an airplane and not lost more useful load then they expected.

[Tom Baker]

2 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

NEVER weight it unless required by the FAA.  Under most circumstances FAA accepts calculated weight, so if you make changes calculate the weight and CG, don't put it on scales.  I don't know anybody who has weighed an airplane and not lost more useful load then they expected.

I scaled an Aeroprakt, that weighed less than the paperwork said. It was a pleasant surprise.

[Towner]

6 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

NEVER weight it unless required by the FAA.  Under most circumstances FAA accepts calculated weight, so if you make changes calculate the weight and CG, don't put it on scales.  I don't know anybody who has weighed an airplane and not lost more useful load then they expected.

I’m very happy with what is listed so there would be no reason to weigh it unless a change was made that would require it. Useful load is one of the great aspects of the CT series, especially us old SW guys. 

[FlyingMonkey]

14 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

I scaled an Aeroprakt, that weighed less than the paperwork said. It was a pleasant surprise.

Unicorn!

[Warmi]

23 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

I scaled an Aeroprakt, that weighed less than the paperwork said. It was a pleasant surprise.

In your professional opinion how would you rate Aeroprakt products in terms of workmanship and overall quality ?

[Tom Baker]

2 hours ago, Warmi said:

In your professional opinion how would you rate Aeroprakt products in terms of workmanship and overall quality ?

My experience is with a A22-LS. They are very utilitarian, but well built nice flying aircraft.