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Replacement Tires


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OK, my '06 CTsw tires are fairly worn, especially the mains. I have the "tundra" package. So, what tires are good replacements? I was leaning towards the beefy Dresslers, but because of the inflation pressure issues, and potential extra weight, I'm willing to go more traditional. Ideas? Experiences?

Thanx

Tim

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Hi Tim,

 

The pressure on the tundras are not an issue, only the smaller 6.00-4 8 plys. The Italian wheels are another factor, smaller wheel bead shoulder and smooth where Matco has a roughed up bead edge to prevent any tire movement. The Matco wheels don't flex with a pressure change like the Italian ones do which also changes the geometry of the 4 disc mounting screws on the Italian wheel and this does cause some binding if you allow the tire pressure to drop too far. The Matco wheels are stiffer because they are cut from solid stock , the Italian ones are stamped and the Matco's are thicker aluminum. The disc on the Matco is fixed so this isn't affected by any pressure change up or down. The calipers on the Matco float like all our cars and motorcycles, but the Italian calipers are solid and they try to float the disk. This is really old technology. So bottom line is with the tundra wheels and I know you have the Matco's tire selection is easier.

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Anyone know of any other tire maker, other than the SAVA (OEM), or Desser 6ply, for the standard size wheels on the CTLS? (SAVA 14x4, Desser 400-6, 6ply only!)

I'm a little nervous about Desser's load rating of only 572lbs for the 6ply, on my 1320+lb plane, and 8ply tires are NOT approved by FD.

Maybe the newer SAVA's are not so bad?

 

http://www.desser.com/aerotires.shtml

 

Has anyone fit a slightly larger/different size tire into the standard wheel pant?

 

Bruce

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I had the Desser 6 plys installed last week. I've only got 6 or so landings, but I like the tire. I'm running 29psi in all 3 and it feels more "positive", less tread squirm on roll out. I was amazed how whimpy and weak plied the OE tires were, there's just nothing to them. The OE tires had no cracks and the tread was worn evenly from left to right and no cupping. After talking with RL a few weeks back I decided to change out the rubber based on his recommendations. Don't read too much into it...just change 'em out. You won't be dissapointed.

 

Mike

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Mike,

 

Like you, I changed out my OEM's not because they were worn out, but because they are so flimsy. Once you have them off and in you hands, it's scarey to see what you have been riding on. Several guys were getting flats from stickers when they operated on sod or parked on the grass. With the new tires and the matco brakes my "where the rubber meets the runway" problems were solved.

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I even went to the bother of importing 2x sets of Desser 6 ply into Ireland for my plane and yes they are certainly worth the bother. Very rarely do I have the 'luxury' of tarmac landings so the protection of the thicker casing is comforting when landing in fields.Plenty of rubber and a much more solid feel when landing. The only reason I haven't burnt the OEM ones is because I'll be putting them back on the day I have to get the plane weighed .... and off again right afterwards!

Mac

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Hi LS Bruce,

 

Any larger tire will not fit. There isn't much room in the smaller wheel pants. The Desser 6 plys should be a good bet. The 8 plys were requiring too much pressure to give them shape and stability and if you had too low a pressure <40 psi, 30 psi for sure they will want to turn on the Italian wheel.

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It looks like FD is going to rescind their approval for Desser Aero Classic 400-6 8-ply tires (approval 091019 dated 19 October 2009). It looks like they approved the tire before testing was conducted or before the tests were evaluated. The tire slips on the rim at inflation pressures below 50 psi and 50 psi may allow structural damage to the airframe. The Aero Classic 400-6 6-ply will continue to be approved (approval 080410, dated 10 April 2008). If anyone needs three 8-ply wheel barrow tires give me a ring. PRW

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It looks like FD is going to rescind their approval for Desser Aero Classic 400-6 8-ply tires (approval 091019 dated 19 October 2009). It looks like they approved the tire before testing was conducted or before the tests were evaluated. The tire slips on the rim at inflation pressures below 50 psi and 50 psi may allow structural damage to the airframe. The Aero Classic 400-6 6-ply will continue to be approved (approval 080410, dated 10 April 2008). If anyone needs three 8-ply wheel barrow tires give me a ring. PRW

The 400-6 6-ply max pressure on the side wall is 50psi. The book and placards on the wheel pants indicates 29psi....What is ground truth for mains and nose gear regarding correct pressure?

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Hi Philip and Ranger,

 

I did the research and gave them the results. No one knew about the 8 ply pressure issue. The 8 plys are a very good tire, but need the extra pressure to stay round and from moving on the rim. The 6 plys are still approved. FD did there drop test at 35 psi tire pressure so unless they do another drop test at a higher pressure anything above 35 psi isn't approved. The 6 plys should be good at that pressure. The Italian wheels are good up to 63 psi. The Matco wheels are good well over that. If you have a very thin pliable tire then less pressure will work to keep it round and in place, but you give up a number of things for such a thin tire. The more plys up to a point are better and tend to have more rubber, but they take more pressure to keep them in shape and seated firmly against the wheel. The Italian wheels have less of a shoulder on the wheel for the tire bead and the Matco's have more of a shoulder and a raised rough edge to keep tires from wanting to turn on a wheel. A few people with the 8 plys with the extra psi had a little problem with the front tire contacting the upper center portion of the front fork and shaved rubber off and other people had no problem. So the 8 plys with FD are out and the 6 plys are in. The 8 plys are good tires, but now are not fleet approved. The 6 plys are good to go.

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Thanks for the information guys. I had just ordered a set of 8 plys for my 2005 CTSW then read this forum. Fortunately I was able to contact Desser in time and change my order to the 6 plys. BTW the guy at Desser was surprised to hear about it and said they had no complaints on the 8 plys.

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Hi Acresflyer,

 

There is nothing wrong with these tires. It is just a mismatch between company products. I was in touch with the top Desser people during my research. That is partly where I got some of the info.

 

p.s.

I have learned that all tires even the ones with the red dot on the side wall that are supposed to be pre-balanced should all be balanced because all the other wheel components mixed with the tire aren't balanced together. I am personally now balancing every tire.

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Tim, just go with the Desser 600-6 6 ply main gear tires for your CTSW with tundra. I installed these and they run true and have good balance from the factory. They're also certified by Desser for 120mph which FD also requires. They will be a couple of pounds heavier than the flimsy factory skins but the weight increase is well worth the long wear and true running. I also went with the Matco axle, brakes and wheels. Total weight increase of the Matco assembly with Desser tire over the factory Italian assembly is 5 lbs. per side for total increase of 10 lbs. You will probably have about a 2 or 3 pound increase per wheel if you just replace the factory tire with the Desser.

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Hi Wayne,

 

This has been a problem because the 4.00-4 is such an odd enough tire size that there aren't any good replacements. The 4.00-4 8 plys would have been ideal except they need more pressure than FD's liking to maintain their position on the wheel. I know you already know this and praying there is something else and if you can find it we would all benefit. I have been working on this little project with Desser, maybe another call to ask to bring in a 6 ply might help. I absolutely don't know. I'll try Tuesday after the holidays.

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  • 6 months later...

Any updates on a suitable replacement for the nose-wheel tyres? I still have the SAVA which was delivered with the airplane 5 years ago (2006 CTsw - Tundra pack) however would like something a bit more robust.

 

I also need to replace the Air Trac 600 x 6.0(4 ply) mains as they are nearly worn out. I recently retro-fitted Matco wheels.

I am wondering if the wheel fairings (pants) will accommodate the Desser 8 ply monster retreads without modification? If not, how robust are the Desser 6 plys against thorns etc?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Dave

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Hi Dave,

 

The Desser 8 ply or 6 ply Monster tread 6.00-6 will work just fine and have plenty of clearance. Many of us use those very tires here in the US. Desser also makes a really nice 6 ply 4.00-6 LSA tire that works very well on the front. I use the 8 plys with 26 psi and we have lots of thorns in the SW US. I only have to add a pound or two of air every 6 months or so. They hold air very well. The tundra wheel (6.00-6) people have a few more tire options over the 4.00-6 guys.

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Hi Dave,

 

The Desser 8 ply or 6 ply Monster tread 6.00-6 will work just fine and have plenty of clearance. Many of us use those very tires here in the US. Desser also makes a really nice 6 ply 4.00-6 LSA tire that works very well on the front. I use the 8 plys with 26 psi and we have lots of thorns in the SW US. I only have to add a pound or two of air every 6 months or so. They hold air very well. The tundra wheel (6.00-6) people have a few more tire options over the 4.00-6 guys.

 

 

Thanks Roger...will contact Desser.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I recently took delivery of some Desser Monster 600-6.0 6 plys and installed them yesterday. What a difference they make and can't believe I never had a puncture with the AirTrac 4 plys as there didn't seem to be too much between the tarmac and the tube when compared to the "monsters".

Have also gone with the consensus and fitted an Aero Classic 400-6 6ply to the nose wheel.

Thanks to all for the helpful advice on tire selection.

 

We had quite a hassle initially trying to fit the "monsters" without pinching the tubes in the Matco split rims until I found a post on another forum (from quite a while back) by Roger Lee where he suggested using some woodworking clamps, which subsequently made the task very straightforward.

Perhaps Roger might like to re-post that information here as it may save others a lot of anguish.

 

Dave

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Dave, glad to hear the Desser tires and tubes fit the bill for you. My Desser monsters continue to serve me well. I installed the Desser tires and tubes on my new Matco wheels last year. The flat inner of the Matco wheels makes the job fairly easy if one uses Roger's clamping technique but still kind of a PIA for me. It appears to be a good possibility that one will pinch the tubes if Roger's method isn't used. This week, I replaced my front factory tire and tube with the Desser 400-6 Aero Classic and Leak Stop tube and used the factory rim. It was a breeze with the "V" shape factory rim, no clamps needed.

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Hi Guys,

 

Maybe we should just have a section on maint. "How To Do This".

The front tire on the CT is from Marc Ingegno like the rear mains were. It is so deep Veed that changing that tire is a piece of cake no matter what tire you put on. The mains can be a challenge. If I have to put on a wimpy carcass tire I use 3 of the pistol grip type woodworking clamps. If I put a fairly stiff large tire like the 6.00-6 Monster tread then I use 4 clamps. Life is easy that way and you can make sure you don't pinch the tube because you can squeeze the tire edges down past the rim edge and then bolt it back up together. As of Jan. 2009 all the wheels front and back are Matco wheels on the CTLS. They have a wider bead area and a raise roughed up edge so your tire won't turn on the rim under lower than optimal pressures. The Marc wheels have a narrow and smooth bead area so if the tires get too low they will turn and possibly pull your stem out. I have seen this on 4 aircraft. Bottom line just make sure your tires stay up to pressure. There is an LOA out under the thread called LOA Approvals that allows you to trim your wheel pants that make pre-flighting, and pressure checks on tires very easy. I have trimmed practically every wheel pant through my shop and it absolutely makes a world of difference.

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Maybe we should just have a section on maint. "How To Do This".

 

That is not a bad idea Roger. One topic I would be very interested in is removing and re-installing the nose-wheel strut. I have done it three times now (in company of my A&P or L.A.M.E. as we call them here) and always found it a hassle getting the top of the strut back into the Rocker unit (KA4010001) without releasing the steering rods.

Is there an easy way to do this?

 

Dave

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Hi Dave,

 

I think you are asking how to connect the push rod ends on each side of the steering head after the strut is back in place because these two rods are spring loaded. I usually do this by myself without any issues. Get a stool that sets fairly low say about 15"-18" off the ground. I use my little rolling stool. I put one foot forward and hook the front of the wheel and take the other and hook the back of the wheel. Now I have control of the steering head by pushing or pulling the front wheel where I want it. I reach inside the door and grab the peddles with one hand so now I have control over the steering rod. By the way this screw does get a drop of Loctite 243 or medium. Don't forget the little spacer between the steering head and the bellcrank end. With control of the front wheel and control of the push rod I just move them in place to align the holes and use the allen wrench in the screw head to screw it in. Once the screw is in at least half way or more I turn loose of the peddles and wheel. It really is easier than it sounds and only takes a minute to put them back together. I use the same method to take them apart so the screw and steering head don't get messed up as the screw comes out.

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