Roger Lee Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 I think going "on condition" at TBO just got a big boost. The 912ULS engine cost just went to $28K and that doesn't include shipping or installation. That means over $30K for an engine swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 Wow...didn't it just recently go to $22k?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 THEY REALLY DON'T WANT TO SELL ANY ENGINES. THAT'S BS RIGHT THERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 Price of tires, oil, filters, you name it - it's all 30% + from a few years ago. Thank Brandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 We had a lot of politics on this site many years ago. Political opinions vary widely and It made for a lot of trouble. I respectfully ask that we refrain from politicizing CTflier. Thanks, Fred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted September 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 It's not just about raising prices It's more about what's going on around the world. Everything is going up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 Oil pushing $100/ barrel is the main culprit, every thing is made using fossil fuel, everything. Also jetA and 100LL is $9 at my airport, self service 100LL is $7. Be glad we can use ethanol auto gas. I help a friend maintain a T28, 60 gal/hr in cruise, 200+ gal/hr at takeoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tevbax Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Madhatter said: Oil pushing $100/ barrel is the main culprit, every thing is made using fossil fuel, everything. Also jetA and 100LL is $9 at my airport, self service 100LL is $7. Be glad we can use ethanol auto gas. I help a friend maintain a T28, 60 gal/hr in cruise, 200+ gal/hr at takeoff. I fill our MoGas tank for 4.15/ gal, non-ethanol. We keep a 35 gal supply in our hangar at least until we get it on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tevbax Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 13 hours ago, Roger Lee said: I think going "on condition" at TBO just got a big boost. The 912ULS engine cost just went to $28K and that doesn't include shipping or installation. That means over $30K for an engine swap. JEEZ!!!!!! I have a picture of Lockwoods price sheet from Airventure this year - 22,893 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted September 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 I had a guy call me building a plane. 2-3 weeks ago on a Friday a Rotax service center told him $23K for a 912ULS. On Monday he was called in the morning and told it was now $28K. He said no thanks and bought a used engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 This is a 22% increase in once year, on top of a 23% increase last year...so 50% in two years. It's not sustainable for most to remain in aviation at those rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 This always opens the door for competitors, companies get too big and in- house beurocracy eventually brings them down with high costs out of control. Aviation is littered with examples. It looks like Rotax is going for the wealthier crowd with their new engines, they are no longer interested in us little people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Madhatter said: This always opens the door for competitors, companies get too big and in- house beurocracy eventually brings them down with high costs out of control. Aviation is littered with examples. True. But S-LSA folks don't have those options. BTW, my buddy bought a NIB Titan IO-320 180hp engine two years ago for $26k. Spending more than that for a 100hp Rotax is getting out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted September 21, 2023 Report Share Posted September 21, 2023 7 hours ago, GrassStripFlyBoy said: Price of tires, oil, filters, you name it - it's all 30% + from a few years ago. Thank Brandon. Agree Darrell, GA ownership woes of yesteryear were pale compared to what’s coming…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 In January 2021 the annualized inflation rate in Austria was 1.1%. In January 2023 it was 10.5%. Since then it has decreased to about 7%. That might have something to do with the price of Rotax engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 I guess this opens up the debate on rebuilding to zero time vs. a new engine. I am guessing used engines are experiencing price increases as well so maybe the total cost is still a wash. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 Zongshen aero engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 11 hours ago, FredG said: That might have something to do with the price of Rotax engines. It does, coupled with Dollar lost ~9% to the Euro in past 10 months. The positive for us owners is with limited amount of CT's around, when the new birds are 200k + and climbing, ours keep increasing at a nice clip too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 9 hours ago, Ken said: I guess this opens up the debate on rebuilding to zero time vs. a new engine. I am guessing used engines are experiencing price increases as well so maybe the total cost is still a wash. Ken Rotax is a manufacturer that does not allow rebuilding to 0 time. There's no pathway to do it, only manufacturers are permitted to 0 time engines. Do you mean overhaul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 That probably has gone up considerably too, considering cost of parts and labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Anticept said: Rotax is a manufacturer that does not allow rebuilding to 0 time. There's no pathway to do it, only manufacturers are permitted to 0 time engines. Do you mean overhaul? Engines can be rebuilt to factory new tolerances and new parts but not labeled as "0" time. This is done routinely on certified engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 I am aware, but there are people who insist on literal zero time engines out there instead of "overhaul to new spec". Really, I bet all lycoming does is move the dataplate to a new engine when you buy a re-man to 0 time it. Rotax does NOT offer such a service. Which I bet is part of the reason they don't hand out overhaul manuals, to try and prevent third party parts and overhaulers from popping up since there's not much data to base on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 And that opens up competition. But my issue with S LSA is that no secondary supply will ever happen as there is no PMA, STC, field, or DER approvals allowed. You will pay whatever they want to charge which may become the demise of light sport unless you are wealthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted September 22, 2023 Report Share Posted September 22, 2023 That I also agree with. I don't like that only manufacturers can decide what happens, or go E-LSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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