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I just talked to them last Friday. I sent one in for repack and rocket. I also found out a little tidbit when I sent a soft pack out of an early CTSW in for repack. When it cam back the expiration was less than 6 years. These parachutes have a replacement life of 24 years, so some big expense coming a little ways down the line.

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  • 5 months later...

Not sure if this would be for the whole system, but aircraft spruce lists the price for a ctls as just over $6600. Doesn't seem too crazy to me considering just a repack is $2400. Oddly enough they don't list the CTSW.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/4/2024 at 1:41 PM, Madhatter said:

After 2 days finally got hold of someone. $2700 for repack only including freight. If you need repack and rocket it's $4600 plus freight. šŸ¤£

Does CTLS require both repack and rocket after 5-years? I'm at 5-years now.Ā 

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Along these lines...

I dutifully replaced the rocket and did the re-pack at the 12 year mark.Ā  I question the reason for the repack at 6 years.Ā  Please explain why this is needed on our planes.Ā  I can see if it were an external pack, and the plane sits outside exposed to weather.Ā  However, the chute is tucked nice and dry inside our planes and my whole plane is kept in a hangar.Ā  When I did the whole rocket and repack there is definitely a process to safely remove and send off the system.Ā  Then, the re-assembly process and re-arming of the rocket.Ā  It seems to me, the risk versus reward is lacking on just a repack for our planes.Ā  I think there is more potential for error, mishap, or installation error for just a repack.Ā Ā 

Maybe somebody can explain why this is necessary?Ā Ā 

If not, can we legally fly it without the repack?Ā  Can an A&P sign off with the exception noted?

Ā 

Ā 

Ā 

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The first document I'd check would be the operating limits to see how they address the question of removing or making the BRS inop, if they do at all.Ā  Operating limits have drifted over the years so you'd have to study the one for this airplane.

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On 8/26/2024 at 8:50 PM, CTSW Bob said:

Along these lines...

I dutifully replaced the rocket and did the re-pack at the 12 year mark.Ā  I question the reason for the repack at 6 years.Ā  Please explain why this is needed on our planes.Ā  I can see if it were an external pack, and the plane sits outside exposed to weather.Ā  However, the chute is tucked nice and dry inside our planes and my whole plane is kept in a hangar.Ā  When I did the whole rocket and repack there is definitely a process to safely remove and send off the system.Ā  Then, the re-assembly process and re-arming of the rocket.Ā  It seems to me, the risk versus reward is lacking on just a repack for our planes.Ā  I think there is more potential for error, mishap, or installation error for just a repack.Ā Ā 

Maybe somebody can explain why this is necessary?Ā Ā 

If not, can we legally fly it without the repack?Ā  Can an A&P sign off with the exception noted?

Ā 

Ā 

Ā 

I think BRS has some blanket guidelines for repack that are based on "worst case scenarios".Ā  Since they can't control the environment the chute sits in, they pick a time frame where they know it will catch 95% of problems that might occur.Ā  It's a safety device so they have to be conservative.Ā  There is definitely a chance for maintenance-induced failures, but that's the nature of all preventative maintenance.

You can't fly the airplane without a repack if the airplane is S-LSA, but you can if E-LSA.Ā  If S-LSA you can get an MRA to fly during the repack period without the chute installed, but I don't think Flight Design is going to issue an MRA for outright removal.Ā  Mine is E-LSA and I let mine go an extra 6 months before doing the repack + rocket last time around.Ā  I was comfortable with that, but I wouldn't go much longer than that personally...the worst feeling in the world would be to need the BRS to save your life and have it not work because you cheaped out on maintaining it.

I'm a fan of the BRS we have, even though it's a "big ticket item" in terms of our overall maintenance expense.Ā  But if you think of it in term of a monthly expense over the twelve year maintenance cycle (144 months), the $2700 (repack) + $4600 (repack + rocket) comes out to about $50 per month.Ā  Not terrible for the safety benefits of the system. You'll spend several times that much on monthly fuel if you fly a lot.

Bob, I'm based at Winder, hit me up in a PM if you want to get together sometime and talk about CTs.Ā  šŸ™‚

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On 8/28/2024 at 8:28 AM, FlyingMonkey said:


You can't fly the airplane without a repack if the airplane is S-LSA,

Ā 

I am curious, where do you find this?Ā  I have been looking for a definitive answer on this and cannot find one.

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Because it came with the airplane.

To remove and fly without it is an alteration, even if it is only being removed and sent out for maintenance. You need approval and FD won't give them.

The only approval they give is one that is a one time approval to get it to a maintenance base.

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I've designed a fewĀ solid propellantĀ gas generators for aerospace applications.

The short answer is, I don't know why they require the rocket to be replaced every 12 years... but I can guess. Our chute rockets use a cigarette burn ā€“ the cylindric propellant grain burns from one end like a cigarette (except thousands of times faster). All the other external surfaces of the grain are coated with an inhibiter that prevents combustion. But if the grain cracks, it will also burn along both surfaces of the crack. This can add a substantial area to the burning surface. Remember that a solid rocket propellant does not need to be exposed to air. Particles of oxidizer are cast into the grain alongside particles of fuel. The sides of the crack burn outward just as vigorously as the end burns back. The rocket chamber pressure is a very non-linear function of the burn area. As the pressure goes up the grain burns faster. Itā€™s a potentially runaway situation, with the burn ultimately becoming an explosion, which the rocket motor case is not designed for.

So, cracks in a solid propellant grain are really bad news. Cracks form as a result of aging, and more specifically, thermal cycling. There are diurnal cycles (the difference in temperature between day and night, and flight cycles which result from cooler temperatures aloft. Somehow, they came up with a worst case thermal cycling scenario, tested the grain successfully after exposure to that scenario, and then declared that to be the time limit.

Keeping the rocket motor dry is certainly a good idea, but to extend its life you also need to store it in a thermally regulated environment. My plane doesnā€™t offer that, in flight or even in the hangar. But if you're not using the plane for a while, you might take the motor out and put it in your refrigerator, then petition BRS to extend your life by the amount of time it was in the frig.

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On 8/30/2024 at 4:22 PM, Anticept said:

Because it came with the airplane.

To remove and fly without it is an alteration, even if it is only being removed and sent out for maintenance. You need approval and FD won't give them.

The only approval they give is one that is a one time approval to get it to a maintenance base.

Ā 

I understand if you remove it as it would be a W&B issue.Ā  I'm talking about if the repack is out of date.

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It's not just a weight and balance issue. If equipment is removed and then flown, its an alteration. Just like removing radios, avionics, seats, etc. S-LSA has a serious drawback that *any* and *all* changes require approval from the manufacturer. Maintenance has very little in common with standard airworthiness when it comes to the idea of "minor" alterations.

As far as the BRS: paragraph 8.3 of the CTLS aoi states it requires no maintenance except for pack and exchange intervals. An AOI doesn't bind a mechanic though (only regulations and safety directives and those most follow a specific format) so technically it wouldn't count.

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  • 1 month later...

Interesting listening to these comments about BRS and repack costs. Iā€™ve had outstanding dealings with BRS in Pinebluff, NC. Ā Prompt return of messages left be it on the phone or via email. Ā Timeliness of dealing with them in terms of inspection of chute and then expected turnaround. Ā Also, my plane, a 2019 CTSW (also known as the CT Super Sport i) has a Model 1350 soft pack parachute installed (not the Model 1350HS) and the repacking price including return shipping is less than $1,500.00. Ā I couldnā€™t be more pleased.

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4 hours ago, Newkentboy said:

Interesting listening to these comments about BRS and repack costs. Iā€™ve had outstanding dealings with BRS in Pinebluff, NC. Ā Prompt return of messages left be it on the phone or via email. Ā Timeliness of dealing with them in terms of inspection of chute and then expected turnaround. Ā Also, my plane, a 2019 CTSW (also known as the CT Super Sport i) has a Model 1350 soft pack parachute installed (not the Model 1350HS) and the repacking price including return shipping is less than $1,500.00. Ā I couldnā€™t be more pleased.

Do you have the carburated Super Sport that was in the Memphis area?

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