Wings unlevel on level ground

[Devon]

2005 CTLS right ( passenger side) wing sits high and fuel level does not even out after sitting. Wondering if there is an adjustment in the main gears to level the plane or if this is a common problem. 

[Ulmo133]

I have the same problem, all it takes is a slight difference in ground level or even the tyres being inflated slightly differently or even worn out for the level to be different in the two tanks.

[Tom Baker]

2005 would be a CTSW not CTLS. On the CTSW this is normally a sign of a slightly bent landing gear leg. If the wing tips are off more than 3", I would expect the gear leg on the low side to be bent. It normally takes two to three hours to replace a leg, but I did have one that took pretty much all day because I couldn't get it to come out of the socket. But that airplane had been through a flood.

I do know of one CTLS that sits a little crooked, and it has had a gear leg replaced, and the two sides don't match exactly.

[Madhatter]

One other thing will cause a wing low other than bent gear leg. The axle fitting or knuckle as some call it can also be bent,  this was what I found on my CT right after I bought it. This part is made from mild steel and can bend on a hard landing. Be aware however that the new part had a 5 degree difference in angle so you may have to replace both sides. I was able to re bend the knuckle on the other side and reinforce it with a welded support. If they used 4130 steel instead of mild steel this would not be an issue.

[Towner]

I understand that regular beatings, such as in training can bend a gear leg. I’m guessing a single hard hit could bend a leg too, but how hard of a hit? I know that is kinda hard to describe, but it’s just one of those things I’m a little paranoid about. I haven’t hit too hard yet, but sooner or later it happens for most of us!

[Eddie Cesnalis]

1 hour ago, Towner said:

I understand that regular beatings, such as in training can bend a gear leg. I’m guessing a single hard hit could bend a leg too, but how hard of a hit? I know that is kinda hard to describe, but it’s just one of those things I’m a little paranoid about. I haven’t hit too hard yet, but sooner or later it happens for most of us!

I have a thousand CTSW landings at Mammoth (7,100' field elevation) and my normal landings are 40 degrees. I think most of us CTSW pilots never bend a gear leg.  To save your gear leg think 3 things:

1. Approach until very low with a centered stick.  Rapid sink can happen and pulling the stick is a normal response
2. Appooach and land with hand on throttle. Soften contact with throttle when needed.
3. Practice falling leaf stalls if necesarry to make opposite rudder saves the automatic reaction to a singel wing drop.

I had a number of single wing drop landings at mammoth where it was too turbulent to round out close to the runway so the drop is 6 or 8 feet.  Instinctual opposite rudder makes the contact soft followed by a pivot back into alignment.

[FlyingMonkey]

Many CTs, especially the SWs, were delivered from the factory slightly unlevel.  Mine has been that way since I bought it with 113hr on it in 2013, with the right wingtip about 1" lower than the left.  I have gone over it carefully and found no cracks, warps, wrinkles or bends in the gear legs.   It's an annoyance but not a big deal.  I have to be careful where I park it with full fuel to try to get the wingtips as level as possible, or some fuel will weep out around the jam nut of the cap vent.  That's very rare since I don't usually fill the tanks unless going on a long flight where it would burn off before parking it again.  If you can't find a problem with a leg or the mounts it might have been delivered that way.

Just another of the CT's "charming quirks."  

[Tom Baker]

23 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said:

Many CTs, especially the SWs, were delivered from the factory slightly unlevel.  Mine has been that way since I bought it with 113hr on it in 2013, with the right wingtip about 1" lower than the left.  I have gone over it carefully and found no cracks, warps, wrinkles or bends in the gear legs.   It's an annoyance but not a big deal.  I have to be careful where I park it with full fuel to try to get the wingtips as level as possible, or some fuel will weep out around the jam nut of the cap vent.  That's very rare since I don't usually fill the tanks unless going on a long flight where it would burn off before parking it again.  If you can't find a problem with a leg or the mounts it might have been delivered that way.

Just another of the CT's "charming quirks."  

I have never seen one that was delivered unlevel. Tow in and camber issues for sure, but not unlevel. 1" lower is not enough to be concerned about, but when they get to 3" you need to take a look. Most of the time you will not find any external visual evidence of anything being damaged. Only removing the fairing from the gear leg, and possibly removing the gear leg from the airplane will it be evident. All that I have thought were bent, were in fact bent, and after replacement set level again. I can generally tell just watching the airplane taxi in. I have replaced several over the years.

[FlyingMonkey]

6 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

I have never seen one that was delivered unlevel. Tow in and camber issues for sure, but not unlevel. 1" lower is not enough to be concerned about, but when they get to 3" you need to take a look. Most of the time you will not find any external visual evidence of anything being damaged. Only removing the fairing from the gear leg, and possibly removing the gear leg from the airplane will it be evident. All that I have thought were bent, were in fact bent, and after replacement set level again. I can generally tell just watching the airplane taxi in. I have replaced several over the years.

I agree 3" is excessive and is likely a bent leg.

[Tom Baker]

1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said:

I agree 3" is excessive and is likely a bent leg.

My point is, other than the wing being low there are usually no other visible abnormalities. 

[Towner]

4 hours ago, Eddie Cesnalis said:

I have a thousand CTSW landings at Mammoth (7,100' field elevation) and my normal landings are 40 degrees. I think most of us CTSW pilots never bend a gear leg.  To save your gear leg think 3 things:

1. Approach until very low with a centered stick.  Rapid sink can happen and pulling the stick is a normal response
2. Appooach and land with hand on throttle. Soften contact with throttle when needed.
3. Practice falling leaf stalls if necesarry to make opposite rudder saves the automatic reaction to a singel wing drop.

I had a number of single wing drop landings at mammoth where it was too turbulent to round out close to the runway so the drop is 6 or 8 feet.  Instinctual opposite rudder makes the contact soft followed by a pivot back into alignment.

Ed, thanks for the info, but landing the airplane isn’t my concern. I’ve owned a few aircraft over the years and already have about 350 hours in this one. I even make at least one landing every flight!

I’m just curious how much force during a bad landing it takes to actually bend a gear leg. I know there are so many factors in whether or not a gear leg gets bent during a hard or bad landing, but I think I’ve just become overly concerned when reading about bent legs on the SW. I’m just trying to get an idea of how fragile they may be, or if I shouldn’t be concerned if I don’t do anything stupid.

[Tom Baker]

Towner, I think it takes a significantly hard landing to bend the gear. I base this off of about 400 hours of instruction given in a CTSW.

[Towner]

4 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

Towner, I think it takes a significantly hard landing to bend the gear. I base this off of about 400 hours of instruction given in a CTSW.

Thanks Tom. That’s what I was looking for. Do you think damage is more likely from just a hard hit, or side loads such as poor crosswind corrections? I don’t expect either, just trying to learn!

[Roger Lee]

I have seen quite a few where one wing is about 4" lower than the other. It has been tweaked landing gear.

[Tom Baker]

3 hours ago, Towner said:

Thanks Tom. That’s what I was looking for. Do you think damage is more likely from just a hard hit, or side loads such as poor crosswind corrections? I don’t expect either, just trying to learn!

Just a guess, but I suspect it occurs when you drop it in on one side instead of both gear at the same time. Unless you really drop it in.

[Madhatter]

Vg's solve the dropping issue completely unless you flare 3 feet up. Never happened again in years 15, 30, or 40 flaps.

[Mike Koerner]

I think I remember (don't quote me on this) reading somewhere (maybe this forum) that the ASTM test for CT landing gear was a vertical drop of 18". That would mean that at gross weight, in a level attitude, they lifted a test aircraft a foot and a half off the ground and then dropped it. Any permanent deformation would constitute an unsuccessful test.

Maybe that gives a sense of how hard a damaging impact might be. It's like jumping off the seat of a chair.

Tire pressure probably plays a significant role: Too little pressure and it's the wheel that will be damaged first, too much and it's the leg or mounting structure.

[Eddie Cesnalis]

13 hours ago, Tom Baker said:

Towner, I think it takes a significantly hard landing to bend the gear. I base this off of about 400 hours of instruction given in a CTSW.

 

14 hours ago, Towner said:

Ed, thanks for the info, but landing the airplane isn’t my concern. I’ve owned a few aircraft over the years and already have about 350 hours in this one. I even make at least one landing every flight!

I’m just curious how much force during a bad landing it takes to actually bend a gear leg. I know there are so many factors in whether or not a gear leg gets bent during a hard or bad landing, but I think I’ve just become overly concerned when reading about bent legs on the SW. I’m just trying to get an idea of how fragile they may be, or if I shouldn’t be concerned if I don’t do anything stupid.

 

13 hours ago, Towner said:

Thanks Tom. That’s what I was looking for. Do you think damage is more likely from just a hard hit, or side loads such as poor crosswind corrections? I don’t expect either, just trying to learn!

I think Tom is correct and that is why I gave the 3 tips mostly to get to number 3.  It's the most turbulent not highest crosswind that is going to lead to the hardest contact and that opposite rudder to soften.   With your experice I would treat your CTSW the same as any other tri gear. They really don't bend very easily.

[FlyingMonkey]

The CTSW gear is pretty stout for the airplane weight and normal loads.  I have about 2000 landings on mine and have had some pretty good thumpers mixed in there and haven't bent one yet (knock on wood!).  I agree with Ed that gusts and turbulence are harder than a steady crosswind.  The light weight of the airplane lets it get picked up, pushed down, and kicked all over the place which can lead to "unanticipated load conditions". 

 

[Towner]

Thanks for the comments guys. Makes me feel a lot better. I’ve read stuff before that made me think the SW gear is almost “delicate”. Your comments are making me feel pretty comfortable that the gear should be just fine for me long term.

 

[Roger Lee]

The gear isn't delicate. Pilot's make them that way.

[Towner]

Thanks Roger. At least you know first hand that I haven’t broke it yet!

[Tom Baker]

I know I tried to straighten one one-time. I have a fairly healthy hydraulic press, so significant force was applied. It had quite a bit of flex, but it didn't yield.

[Towner]

1 hour ago, Tom Baker said:

I know I tried to straighten one one-time. I have a fairly healthy hydraulic press, so significant force was applied. It had quite a bit of flex, but it didn't yield.

That’s impressive. Obviously, I’ve been worrying about this way too much. I don’t have 2000 landings in it, but I probably have about 400, including some nasty winds, and haven’t had a really bad one yet.

Thankfully I baby the nose gear all the time. Our Sheriffs Department used to have an LS. They did damage on their first landing by trying to land nose wheel first! I think I read somewhere that you aren’t supposed to do that on any airplane! It was a former F18 pilot and I guess they are used to putting it down firm.

[Tom Baker]

To the OP since you verified that you have a CTLS in another post. If you had a gear leg replaced at some point, that is likely why it sets unlevel. Other things to check, remove the upper gear fairing on the low side and look to see if possible the gear is cracked. While the fairing is off make sure the rubber pads are in place. Also look at the axle to check whether it is bent. These are all things I have encountered before on the CTLS