FlyingMonkey Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 If you take the cooler out of the system, and just flush through the hoses and engine, it would be interesting to know if more of the cheese comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 There have been multiple flushes and they continue. The photo would be debris from 1 flush. The first flushes resulted in a lot of metal and afterward the yellow material. I believe it takes a lot of heat to get this stuff to release and that's why they continue to try even after they had a 12 micron screen that was clean, normally that is the stopping point. My magnetic plug and filter have never produced much metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 There have been multiple flushes and they continue. The photo would be debris from 1 flush. The first flushes resulted in a lot of metal and afterward the yellow material. I believe it takes a lot of heat to get this stuff to release and that's why they continue to try even after they had a 12 micron screen that was clean, normally that is the stopping point. My magnetic plug and filter have never produced much metal. Replace the cooler? What are they flushing with, hot water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Hi Eric, How did it get in kthe oil? Ooopps, was thinking radiator not oil cooler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 There have been multiple flushes and they continue. The photo would be debris from 1 flush. The first flushes resulted in a lot of metal and afterward the yellow material. I believe it takes a lot of heat to get this stuff to release and that's why they continue to try even after they had a 12 micron screen that was clean, normally that is the stopping point. My magnetic plug and filter have never produced much metal. What kind of metal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Ooopps, was thinking radiator not oil cooler! Me too, that's why I suggested flushing the rest of the system. Harder to do with the oil system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Replace the cooler? What are they flushing with, hot water? If it doesn't release all of the contaminants then I would replace it. The cleaning solution is automatic transmission fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 What kind of metal? I don't know yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 There is a guy from an engine shop that does a talk about engine problems they have seen. One was a seized main bearing that had the oil passage blocked from some sort of plastic that was not in a recognizable shape. They finally figured out that it was from the plastic ring on a oil bottle. When the oil was at temp it became pliable and moved through the system. I know when I got my first airplane one of the recommended oils was Pennzoil, in yellow bottles. This is the first thought that came to my mind when I saw the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 They had a problem with that but they changed how the rings were attached to the bottles. That was a long time ago, pretty unlikely now. I also don't know if the ring would melt enough to get out of the oil tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I was also just thinking of plastic ring from an oil bottle, if in fact they are yellow, not black. Or a broken piece of a funnel? Just too weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Best guess at this point seems to be paraffin wax build-up. Someone said that distilled water vapor outs it from the paraffinic oil base stock, then it gets baked hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 But aviation oils or quality motorcycle oils don't use paraffin. I remember avoiding Quaker State in engines growing up because of paraffin...you aren't using QS 10W40 in your Rotax, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 They use parffinic base oil I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 from an "oil guy" forum... A paraffin is just a common name for a saturated C-H chain (hydrocarbon chain). In chemistry they are known as an alkane. The term paraffinic base oil is derived from the term paraffin, meaning a saturated hydrocarbon based oil. Almost all motor oils contain, or, are mostly paraffin's (alkanes), including Group I, II, III, IV and many oils in Group V. The exception in motor oils are the ones based on esters (Group V) and other oils which are not paraffins in Group V, but a motor oil using only ester base oils is rare. Paraffin is sometimes confused with paraffin wax. A paraffin isn’t necessarily a wax. There are paraffin type compounds and then there are paraffin waxes. The shorter paraffins (alkanes) like methane (CH4) and ethane (C2H6) are gaseous at room temperature. As the hydrocarbon chain gets longer ~ 10C, the C-H chained molecules become liquid at room temperature (oils), and when you have a long straight chain with ~20C atoms or more, the molecules will form a crystalline structure at room temperature known as a wax. PAO's are made from alkenes, which are not paraffins (alkane's). Alkenes = olefin = C-H molecule with at least one double C=C bond. Modern PAO's are hydrogenated to remove any remaining C=C double bonds (saturate the carbon atoms with hydrogen) to increase their thermal/oxidative stability, which in effect turns the chained alkenes in the PAO into alkanes, which are paraffin's. So, hydrogenated PAO's (Group IV) are paraffin's too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 FD USA response: Dave Armando via mammothlakesinsulation.com 11:34 AM (1 minute ago) to Ed While no one has seen this that I've contacted. The opinion is that the use of different types of oil and a non-motorcycle engine oil instead of the now specified oil Sport +4 was the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Ed, Everything that anyone says up to this point is only speculation. You need to get that debris back and send it to Avlabs. Don't let this one go. Have them send it to me and I'll send it to Avlabs. Don't let them toss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I agree, it should be tested. It might make someone else's life easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 I"ll have the cooler and the debris tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 The cooler came back without the debris or the hose ends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 That's not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Call them. Those hose ends are expensive if the are the 90 degree fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 The are sending the hose ends but the contaminants are now lost They were on the outside of a very messy box and I tossed it in my dumpster that got emptied at sunrise this AM. Hopefully there is some in my oil filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Just modified my SW with the spring in the hose. At a humid 90+ degrees , initial climb 1000 ft/ min to 1000 then 500 ft/ min to 4000. Oil temperature stability < 230 and cyl temperature decrease ( oil system also takes heat away ). Roger got this one right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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