Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 Jeremy McGregor drove through Yosemite National Park this week to come and do my condition inspection. He was shocked at some people stopping along hwy 120 and taking pictures it is now forbidden to even look at the national park. Today we here how roadside views are being blocked to prevent viewing mt rushmore :huh: 80 year old people are being kicked out of their homes because they are on federal land. They even closed an ocean! There are no limits, we could be next. Govt gone mad.
FlyingMonkey Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 The only not true statement regards the helicopters. The have closed all roadside vantage points of Mt. Rushmore to prevent viewing, they have kicked people out of their homes if they sit on federal land, and they have closed access to 1100 square miles of open ocean.
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Posted October 7, 2013 And, this has what to do with ctflier? Things are being shut down where there is no point other than to increase the pain, even when it costs additional money to do so. It is past the point of reason and the question of shutting down the skies becomes relevant. We now have federal guards blocking private businesses so customers cannot access. People that own homes are homeless. Does it sound to you like there are reasonable limits on the actions being taken? Why are they being taken in the first place? I can't understand why our govt would intentionally harm us. Everything around here is needlessly closed, Manzanar, Death Valley, all campgrounds along the Eastern Sierra, Yosemite, ... We have tourists everywhere looking to camp in our parking lots. None of this happened during the last 17 shutdowns, this is the govt intentionally causing needless pain and as a private pilot I feel like their attitude is, 'you can't even look at federal land if your hotel has a view we will cut you off, if your house is on our lease we will kick you out'. If we don't object when they are cutting off views and access to tourists and home owners and business patrons who will object when they cut off our views and access?
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Posted October 7, 2013 Politics or not, I am flying over federal employees that are in place to block anyone viewing what I still have access to. When I fly over low its hard to tell if they are waving hello or flipping me off. I can't help but feel unwanted.
CT4ME Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 "And, this has what to do with ctflier? " The Parks shutdown is likely to affect our CTFlier Page Fly-in, if it continues. No Bullfrog, No Dam tour, No Antelope Marina Dinner, and possible disruption of Bryce Activities and the River float. Because the Parks are shut down, businesses that rely on the tourists are shutting down. Even if the Gov gets going again, it is likely that the Parks will remain closed, as many of them close in late October or November anyway. Tim
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Posted October 7, 2013 ...businesses that rely on the tourists are shutting down... You know Tim, that's one thing, but the govt is actively shutting down the private businesses by stationing guards at their parking lot entrances. The guards turn away the patrons. The federal government is implying that the right to view scenery owned (confiscated) by them is a right granted by them and therefore can be revoked by them. I don't see a political issue but an issue of suffering under a government that assumes powers that they don't have in order to control the population. Have we crossed into new territory? A crisis is a terrible thing to waist.
FlyingMonkey Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 Hey CT, buzz Mt. Rushmore and drop a thousand little Gadsden Flags ("Don't Tread on Me") on it.
CT4ME Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 What bothers me is, after all the BS... everyone will get back-pay, always do. Why don't the Govt workers stay, and work for "free", knowing this? It's like a dang paid vacation! http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20131005/NEWS/310050006/House-passes-retroactive-pay-bill-furloughed-feds
Doug G. Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 That's fine of you have a bank account large enough to get you through the shut down. A lot of people don't. I have heard of people being moved from campgrounds, but not from homes on government land. Most of the houses I know of pre-existed the parks and they have exemptions.
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Posted October 7, 2013 Lake Mead property owners forced out until shutdown ends http://www.ktnv.com/news/local/Lake-Mead-Property-Owners-Forced-Out-Until-Gov-Shutdown-Ends-226557661.html
Doug G. Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 I agree... what does this have to do with this forum? Are we opening a free for all - or is there an assumption that everyone here is a Tea Party conservative which is absolutely not true!
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Posted October 7, 2013 It is my liberal friends that are demonstrating in Yosemite and are prepared to go to jail. I'm ignoring the politics and scared by the new territory we are in where our govt is electing to remove our rights and access so they can use the pain in a blame game. With the exception of the immigration demonstration that is permitted on the Washington Mall, this intentional harm harms left and right alike.
Doug G. Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 Yes, I have known of people who had to annually give up their businesses in the 70s because of a change in government policy. They were compensated, but not happy. On the other hand, "The Lake Mead properties are considered vacation homes; one of the lease requirements to own a plot is people must have an alternative residence."
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Posted October 7, 2013 Doug, I'm trying to get my head around your other hand It sounds as though you are arguing that the govt should needlessly evict these people because they must have an alternative residence by lease agreement. I would argue that the government is crossing into an openly malevolent mindset where closing oceans and blocking views now makes sense. We are now too broke to allow you to stay in that hotel or view this treasure so we will employ guards to keep you out ???????????? Policy changes usually do hurt business but a least they used to have an intent where they were beneficial on the whole and respectful of rights.
FlyingMonkey Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 I blame all of them equally, the whole system is hopelessly broken. This should not be a liberal/conservative fight, it should be a liberty/authoritarianism fight.
Doug G. Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 CT, I agree it is tragic that people are being hurt by the sequester, the budget fiasco, and will be hurt even more by the looming debt limit crises, but if I have a lease that says I need to have another house there is a reason for that clause. I think the reason for that clause is for exactly this sort of thing. No rules have changed in their situation. Actually sounds like the lease was there to protect them from being homeless in this sort of situation. It is not much different than living in a mobile home park and having the land owner sell the land you are parked on.
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Posted October 7, 2013 Doug, I would buy your argument if there was a purpose for the eviction. This and the other actions that scare me are done to cause unnecessary pain. They didn't have to move out on the previous shut downs, they didn't close an ocean on previous shutdowns ...etc.
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Posted October 7, 2013 CT, I agree it is tragic that people are being hurt by the sequester, the budget fiasco, and will be hurt even more by the looming debt limit crises... Doug, I don't think we agree at all. I don't see those things as tragic but as the natural consequence of borrowing and spending more than can ever be paid back ($17T) and committing to another perhaps $200T in unfunded liabilities. If the money can't be paid back it won't and consequences have to be suffered, ie Detroit. The big difference between that battle and this one is intentions, we committed ourselves to those obligations with good intentions where today our government is acting with malevolent intent. While it cries shutdown and no funding it is spending lots of money just to make pain with not benevolent intent at all. This is not a govt by the people for the people. We haven't had a budget for 2 presidential terms, laws are now enforced selectively, the govt spies on us completely, and now we find the govt pricks us just to watch us bleed and to have damage to point to for political gain. Where does this change end? Will we still be flying?
Jim Meade Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 This is essentially not flight related, at least not specifically CT flight related and needs to move to different site. Enough of this. Take your political points of view somewhere else.
FastEddieB Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 A thread like this can bring out partisanship and even hostility. Good thing it's easy to avoid if you know the trick*. *Don't click on the thread.
CT4ME Posted October 7, 2013 Report Posted October 7, 2013 The title of the thread is clear, and no hijacking happened, so I don't see the problem. We often discuss aviation related topics here. Eddie's super-secret method of avoiding the topic works well. Without any political overtone... I found this interesting (from AOPA forum): The Gov't shutdown is having a unprecedented affect on Aircraft sales. How, you ask? For the first time ever, during any Gov't shutdown, the FAA office for aircraft registry is closed. And to make things worse, over 1/3 of all aircraft sales happen during the last Qtr of the year. A few more weeks of Political Theatre will have a big impact on GA, and the Economy. So, they aren't working... but will get full pay for these days. Grrrrrrr....
techman Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Not impacting flying but FAA is closed to plane transfers, etc. can't sell my old cirrus or buy a new cirrus. If we tied their pay to passing a budget which has not happened for years this crap would stop. I do realize the likelyhood of them linking their pay to their ability to execute is bupkis,
FredG Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Folks, we all like to vent about our political beliefs. But, I have said it before, there are 1000 forums on the web to rant about politics. There is only one place to discuss FD airplanes. So, if you want to turn this into a political forum, go ahead. Nothing but fewer active members and a lot of chest thumping will come of it. And, please don't pretend this is about FD airplanes, 'cause we all know it's just a way for folks to rant about the president, the government, or whatever else gets them hot under the collar. So, go there if you want, but remember what is gonna be lost in the process.
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