Gov shutdown closing general aviation

[FredG]

Folks, we all like to vent about our political beliefs. But, I have said it before, there are 1000 forums on the web to rant about politics. There is only one place to discuss FD airplanes. So, if you want to turn this into a political forum, go ahead. Nothing but fewer active members and a lot of chest thumping will come of it.

 

And, please don't pretend this is about FD airplanes, 'cause we all know it's just a way for folks to rant about the president, the government, or whatever else gets them hot under the collar. So, go there if you want, but remember what is gonna be lost in the process.

[FastEddieB]

On COPA it's called "Hot Section".

 

On I-BMW.com and ADVrider.com it's called "Jo Momma".

 

The I-BMW disclaimer:

 

 

JoMomma A.K.A. Darwin's Waiting Room. WARNING: Can't take the heat?? Are you uncomfortable with POLITICAL DISCOURSE? - DO NOT ENTER. Be forewarned this forum contains some posts that are not appropriate for general viewing and are not work suitable!

 

 

It helps segregate the rowdies, and keeps religion and politics out of the main forum.

 

I used to enjoy mixing it up there, but it got tiresome after a while and I now visit infrequently.

[Doug G.]

CT, I believe things can be "natural consequences" and still be tragic, correct?

We could probably disagree on the consequences of the lack of government oversight on the mortgage industry, or the wisdom of fighting the longest war in our history and adding a second one. And maybe the lowering of capital gains taxes from 29% in the 70s to 15% now.

(It was 39% at one time.)

Since it seems that this conversation is seen as fitting the site I will add that part of the current impass is a misconception on the part of some House members that the President passes laws and budgets. And 40+ votes in the House to undo the AHA makes them think they are doing something - looks like Einstein's definition of insanity to me.

I have no problem discussing these things as long as it remains conversational and not personal.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Doug,

 

Big govt vs limited govt, high taxes vs low taxes, blame bush vs get over it, none of this is the intended subject of this thread.

 

The question at issue is one that essentially defines America. Have we transitioned to a condition where the government intentionally and openly inflicts pain on its citizens to punish its opposition?

 

In my neck of the woods we are literally being told where we can stop and look, it feels more like North Korea than America. It was the stopping of the world war II vets that made me realize that we are in a new era of punish the people.

[Doug G.]

I was in D.C. this spring. Enjoyed it immensely. But I understand that if things need protection from vandals ( remember the monuments that were spray painted earlier this year?) you need people around. Did the park service decide to discriminate against the veterans? I don't think so. I would be surprised if they even knew they were coming, it is not a government program.

I am assuming that the "stop and look" was inside a national park. A scenic overlook perhaps? Where they usually have someone dumping the trash cans, and cleaning up litter?

[Ed Cesnalis]

It takes 2 hours to drive across the sierra and you are not permitted to stop and look at the scenery at any point. The Rangers enforcing this are people we know and they apologize and admit they are told to make it unpleasant for anyone driving through.

 

“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

 

George Will reported that this practice was nation wide. http://www.breitbart...-Arm-Of-The-DNC

 

Why are you dreaming up excuses? The past 17 shutdowns did not include this kind of nonsense.

 

The IRS is now used against us too, our leader said that it is now time to 'reward our friends and punish our enemies' and we see plenty of both. This is the 1st time in my 60 years that the govt has chosen to see me as an enemy because I don't support the concept of big government.

[Ed Cesnalis]

*UPDATED* The List: Unnecessarily Shut Down by Obama to Inflict Public Pain

1. Treatments for Children Suffering From Cancer

2. The World War II Memorial

3. Furloughed Military Chaplains Not Allowed to Work for Free

4. Business Stops In Florida Keys

5. Obama Blacks Out Sports, Entertainment Programming to Overseas Troops

6. Obama Closes D-Day Memorial

7. Obama Tries to Close Privately-Funded Mt. Vernon

8. Obama Closes Over 100 Privately-Managed Parks That Cost No Money to Run

9. Obama Closes Self-Sustaining Colonial Farm It Hasn’t Supported Since 1980

10. Obama Tries to Close State-Run Parks in Wisconsin

11. Obama Closes Vietnam Memorial

12. Obama Closes Privately-Owned Hotel, Police Block Parking Lot

13. Park Service Ranger: 'We've Been Told to Make Life As Difficult For People As We Can'

14. Obama Forces Residents Out of Private Homes

15. Acadia Park In Maine Shut Down

16. Historic Restaurant Open During Last Shutdown Forced to Close

17. Obama Shuts Down a Road Tha Goes Through CO Park:

18. Residents Plan Protest of Cape Hatteras Closing

19. Obama Blocks People From LOOKING at Mt. Rushmore

20. Crucial USDA Websites Taken Down

21. St. Louis Gateway Arch Closed

22. Park Shutdown Bounces Rowers from Potomac

23. Thompson Boat Center Closed In DC

24. Obama Closes Military Commissary

25. Arizona Offers to Fund Grand Canyon, Obama Says 'Drop Dead'

26. Amber Alert Website Taken Offline

27. Miramar Air Show Canceled With One-Day Notice

28. At Start of Peak Season, Shutdown Closes Peaks of Otter Lodge

29. Federal Prison Guards Not Getting Paid, Inmates Are

30. Family that Paid $2,000 for Permit Not Allowed to Raft

31. Although Privately Funded, Historic Ford's Theater Closed

32. King Crab Season Threatened by Government Shutdown

33. Children Might Lose School Lunches

34. Feds Shut Down Major Roadway, Puts Children's Lives at Risk

35. Road to Brasstown Bald Closed During Peak Season

36. Columbia Island and Washington Sailing Marina Closed

37. IRS Collections Operational, Taxpayer Advocate Office Closed

38. Eleven Hundred Square Miles of Florida Ocean Closed

 

- See more at: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures-for-shutdown#sthash.vJXI7Igo.dpuf

[FastEddieB]

...35. Road to Brasstown Bald Closed During Peak Season...

 

That one hits pretty close to home.

[Ed Cesnalis]

What happened to the money I paid in for 45 years? The govt claims they didn't raid the trust fund but now we have to borrow money to pay benifits?

 

 

Social Security Warns Benefits Could Get Cut

 

 

The Social Security Administration has begun warning the public it cannot guarantee full benefit payments if the debt ceiling isn’t increased.

 

When asked by the public, the agency is notifying beneficiaries that “Unlike a federal shutdown which has no impact on the payment of Social Security benefits, failure to raise the debt ceiling puts Social Security benefits at risk,” according to a person familiar with the agency directive.

 

The warning was assembled after the agency consulted with the Treasury Department, which would play a lead role in determining how the government handles payments if the borrowing limit isn’t raised soon.

 

“Our employees started receiving questions from the public, so the agency worked with Treasury to provide an answer they could use when asked about the debt ceiling by the public,” a Social Security Administration spokesman said.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/10/07/social-security-warns-benefits-could-get-cut/

[FlyingMonkey]

So here is a question that does relate directly to the fly-in: Many of these parks are closed; do folks here foresee a time when they close off the airspace around these parks as well to "pile on the pain", perhaps through extensive use of TFRs?

 

Another question is what happens if a small plane goes down in one of the closed parks...would to politicians refuse SAR into the park to highlight the politics, perhaps at the expense of a pilot's and passengers' lives?

[EminiTrader]

They just cancelled my FAA written test for Thursday due to the shut down

[Roger Lee]

I just talked to the hotel for the Page Fly-In. Get this there are no, not a single boat allowed on lake Powell. A lake that has more coast line than California. A couple of marinas are shut down, too. People traveling this year to that area are cancelling hotel reservations left and right.

 

It really will have very little impact on our fly-in except for the river trip and Bullfrog marina, but still.......

 

 

I'm glad we'll be in the air and on private properties so we'll still get to have our flights and fun.

[Doug G.]

Now that is very strange. I have not heard of that anywhere else, and it would have made the news here if the NDs Lake Sakakawea was closed. If this were political... all of NDs congress people are Republican.

How are federal employees involved with Lake Powell?

 

[FlyingMonkey]

They just cancelled my FAA written test for Thursday due to the shut down

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

Sorry dude, that sucks. Keep studying and make 100% when you do take it.

[Doug G.]

Fortunately the national parks in this area have not been developed, so no one is being inconvenienced. The big hit here so far is that the federal farm market reports are not available which makes farm decisions difficult.

CT, I thought you were in favor of less government. If the money isn't there things don't happen. Everyone is complaining about their specifics. Republican intransigence has led to the sequester, the shut down, and probably default, and they still won't get their way. I am shifting my investments in anticipation.

[FlyingMonkey]

How did people possibly manage to use boats before there was a US federal government?!?

[sandpiper]

My wife was on a commercial flight this morning inbound for LAX. When they got to the Grand Canyon, the flight attendants made them all close their window shades citing a new executive order that would take away their rights to use ATC services if they didn't.

 

Just joking. She said it was still there in all its glory.

[Ed Cesnalis]

...

CT, I thought you were in favor of less government. If the money isn't there things don't happen...

 

If the money isn't there things don't happen. Everyone is complaining about their specifics. Republican intransigence has led to the sequester, the shut down, and probably default

 

I am in favor of less government. I am not in favor of a government that is restricting our rights and access in order to inflict pain.

 

In America we don't inflict pain on the population in order to point at their suffering! Until now!!

[FlyingMonkey]

That's why I was asking the airspace question. I could definitely imagine some busybody politicians saying it's not fair that "a bunch of rich playboy airplane owners" get to continue enjoying the parks from the air while the rest of the poor masses have to suffer, and demand giant TFRs to keep traffic below 18K feet from seeing the parks.

[FlyingMonkey]

[/size]

 

I am in favor of less government. I am not in favor of a government that is restricting our rights and access in order to inflict pain.

 

In America we don't inflict pain on the population in order to point at their suffering! Until now!!

 

That is correct. How does having boats on Lake Powell cost the fedcoats money? How does having people LOOK at Mt. Rushmore from the side of the road cost them money? How does having people continuing to live in private residences leased on federal land cost them money? How does having people continuing to walk through open air memorials in DC that are privately funded cost them money?

 

None of these things cost money. This exercise is NOT about saving money or reducing government. It's about the federal boot pushing on your neck to show you who is boss. Never fall prey to the fallacy that the federal government has our interests at heart, whether is is controlled by people with a D or a R after their names.

[WmInce]

. . . "They just cancelled my FAA written test for Thursday due to the shut down " . . .

 

Just part of the "makin' it hurt" program.

 

Get used to it folks . . . it's gonna' be the new "normal" for a while.

 

What's wrong with this picture? :mellow:

[FastEddieB]

They just cancelled my FAA written test for Thursday due to the shut down

 

That blows.

 

Then again, with no government, who needs a license to fly?

 

Just kidding, but we may discover that without a Department of Transportation (or Energy or Agriculture or Education or Labor or whatever), there would still be transportation (and energy and agriculture and education and labor and whatever).

 

I predict a groundswell of resentment, and maybe a new organization called "VTBO" (Vote The Bastards Out) where huge numbers of Americans commit to not voting for any incumbent. Clean house, as it were.

 

Of course, as always, one must be careful what one wishes for.

[Ed Cesnalis]

'Gestapo' tactics meet senior citizens at Yellowstone

 

John Macone

Newburyport Daily News

 

NEWBURYPORT — Pat Vaillancourt went on a trip last week that was intended to showcase some of America’s greatest treasures.

 

Instead, the Salisbury resident said she and others on her tour bus witnessed an ugly spectacle that made her embarrassed, angry and heartbroken for her country.

 

Vaillancourt was one of thousands of people who found themselves in a national park as the federal government shutdown went into effect on Oct. 1. For many hours her tour group, which included senior citizen visitors from Japan, Australia, Canada and the United States, were locked in a Yellowstone National Park hotel under armed guard.

 

The tourists were treated harshly by armed park employees, she said, so much so that some of the foreign tourists with limited English skills thought they were under arrest.

 

When finally allowed to leave, the bus was not allowed to halt at all along the 2.5-hour trip out of the park, not even to stop at private bathrooms that were open along the route.

 

“We’ve become a country of fear, guns and control,” said Vaillancourt, who grew up in Lawrence. “It was like they brought out the armed forces. Nobody was saying, ‘we’re sorry,’ it was all like — ” as she clenched her fist and banged it against her forearm.

 

Vaillancourt took part in a nine-day tour of western parks and sites along with about four dozen senior citizen tourists. One of the highlights of the tour was to be Yellowstone, where they arrived just as the shutdown went into effect.

 

Rangers systematically sent visitors out of the park, though some groups that had hotel reservations — such as Vaillancourt’s — were allowed to stay for two days. Those two days started out on a sour note, she said.

 

The bus stopped along a road when a large herd of bison passed nearby, and seniors filed out to take photos. Almost immediately, an armed ranger came by and ordered them to get back in, saying they couldn’t “recreate.” The tour guide, who had paid a $300 fee the day before to bring the group into the park, argued that the seniors weren’t “recreating,” just taking photos.

 

“She responded and said, ‘Sir, you are recreating,’ and her tone became very aggressive,” Vaillancourt said.

 

The seniors quickly filed back onboard and the bus went to the Old Faithful Inn, the park’s premier lodge located adjacent to the park’s most famous site, Old Faithful geyser. That was as close as they could get to the famous site — barricades were erected around Old Faithful, and the seniors were locked inside the hotel, where armed rangers stayed at the door.

 

“They looked like Hulk Hogans, armed. They told us you can’t go outside,” she said. “Some of the Asians who were on the tour said, ‘Oh my God, are we under arrest?’ They felt like they were criminals.”

 

By Oct. 3 the park, which sees an average of 4,500 visitors a day, was nearly empty. The remaining hotel visitors were required to leave.

 

As the bus made its 2.5-hour journey out of Yellowstone, the tour guide made arrangements to stop at a full-service bathroom at an in-park dude ranch he had done business with in the past. Though the bus had its own small bathroom, Vaillancourt said seniors were looking for a more comfortable place to stop. But no stop was made — Vaillancourt said the dude ranch had been warned that its license to operate would be revoked if it allowed the bus to stop. So the bus continued on to Livingston, Mont., a gateway city to the park.

 

The bus trip made headlines in Livingston, where the local newspaper Livingston Enterprise interviewed the tour guide, Gordon Hodgson, who accused the park service of “Gestapo tactics.”

 

“The national parks belong to the people,” he told the Enterprise. “This isn’t right.”

 

Calls to Yellowstone’s communications office were not returned, as most of the personnel have been furloughed.

 

Many of the foreign visitors were shocked and dismayed by what had happened and how they were treated, Vaillancourt said.

 

“A lot of people who were foreign said they wouldn’t come back (to America),” she said.

 

The National Parks’ aggressive actions have spawned significant criticism in western states. Governors in park-rich states such as Arizona have been thwarted in their efforts to fund partial reopenings of parks. The Washington Times quoted an unnamed Park Service official who said park law enforcement personnel were instructed to “make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

 

The experience brought up many feelings in Vaillancourt. What struck her most was a widely circulated story about a group of World War II veterans who were on a trip to Washington, D.C., to see the World War II memorial when the shutdown began. The memorial was barricaded and guards were posted, but the vets pushed their way in.

 

That reminded her of her father, a World War II veteran who spent three years in a Japanese prisoner of war camp.

 

“My father took a lot of crap from the Japanese,” she recalled, her eyes welling with tears. “Every day they made him bow to the Japanese flag. But he stood up to them.

 

“He always said to stand up for what you believe in, and don’t let them push you around,” she said, adding she was sad to see “fear, guns and control” turned on citizens in her own country.

 

- See more at: http://www.newburypo...h.NTzx4U5t.dpuf

[FastEddieB]

 

“The national parks belong to the people...”

 

^^^This.

[EminiTrader]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

Sorry dude, that sucks. Keep studying and make 100% when you do take it.

 

Yaeh man... but is what it is. Just gonna work on my landings and maneuvers...