Acensor Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 Just curious. Do you call out "see tee six eight bravo Lima" Or "Flight design six eight bravo Lima" Or what? Alex
ralarcon Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 Just curious. Do you call out "see tee six eight bravo Lima" Or "Flight design six eight bravo Lima" Or what? Alex Flight Design November niner two zero Charley Tango. Cheers
Al Downs Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 I always use Flight Design 921K. That way the people begin to recognize Flight Design. Still creates confusion with some controllers. If that happens, tell them it is a light sport. They will look it up and then that controller is trained for the future.
Anticept Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 The FAA type is "FDCT" for all FD aircraft, if you want to help them find your type aircraft.
paul m Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 I could have sworn we just had this conversation. Anyone remember which thread? General thoughts were use Flight Design to promote the brand. Light Sport works if you're not brand conscious. FDCT if they want an ICAO indentifier. Expect to be referred to as Experimental alot. Some controllers may even require you to call yourself Experimental although there is no support for them doing that in regs. Controllers up here just use my N number and refer to me as Experimental when telling other pilots to look for me. None of them have as of yet said watch for sweet looking Flight Design CTLS Jubilee edition on downwind...but I'm still hopeful.
Anticept Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 Our controllers just refer to us as "Light Sport"
FlyingMonkey Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 I have been using "Light Sport" because I think it gives most controllers and pilots a better idea of what I am and my performance than "Flight Design" which few will recognize. However, in the last thread on this I was mildly chastised and told that "Flight Design" is more correct, since there really is not technically a generic "Light Sport" identifier and FDCT is the type. I plan to try using that for a while and seeing if it grows on me.
Runtoeat Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 I've always used "Flight Design" but will occasionally be asked, when coming in to new airports, to report "aircraft designator code" which is FDCT. "Flight Design" seems to work well with most ATC that I come in contact with.
CT2kflyer Posted January 10, 2014 Report Posted January 10, 2014 FDCT - Always, and I haven't noticed any confusion be it Class D, C, or B airspace.
Acensor Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Posted January 11, 2014 Flight Design. Using the term light sport is like calling all other incoming aircraft GA. I could just see it. Tower this is GA 525AB. GA identifies as much as the term light sport. That's why they use terms like Cessna, Piper, Lancair, Cub, ect.... It's all part of painting a complete picture for a controller. Once you identify yourself as Flight Design he isn't supposed to change it and the 1-2 times a controller has done that to me I correct him. Light sport can mean anything and tells them nothing. I AZ most all of us use Flight Design and they all know what they are because we took the time to educate them. We all should be doing that nation wide. . . Wow, when I posted my question out of curiosity I had no idea that this was such a multi viewed interesting issue. But when you think about it, it makes sense it would be more than merely cosmetic, as we are all very much wanting to know what's flying right behind us and what to be looking for when we hear transmissions nearby.. With due respect for your greater experience than mine, Roger, and seeing your point about "GA 525AB" being uninformative, I disagree with "Light sport can mean anything and tells them nothing.". I'd say "light sport" tells the control tower and many pilots many things:. That you're flying relatively slowly, that you need hardly any runway to land or takeoff, that chances are you can't handle nearly as much cross wind as most GA aircraft, that you're "light" even compared to most single engine GA aircraft and thus would not be happy being vectored in right on the tail of a landing 747,that you could, if asked to hold off, likely stay aloft slow flighting for 3 gallons an hour while traffic was sorted out, and that there's a maximum of two souls on board. It also tells other pilots to look for something relatively small out there. . I'd bet that "light sport" means something informational to more pilots than "Flight Design" does. And my question wasn't strictly about control tower transmission but also to CTAF transmissions where we hope what we say we're flying in means something useful to other pilots. For example when I hear some aircraft type 10 mines behind me inbound most anything, certainly "light sport" is more informative than "Experimental" as an experimental can mean something pretty heavy and closing on me at 250 knots ... and prudent for me to get out of the way fast... or something barely over legal ultralight that's hovering at 50 knots and represents absolutely no potential conflict to me as I'll be off the runway while he's still 8 miles out.. . I have to confess if I was in the pattern and I heard "FDCT" I wouldn't have had a clue what to look for. . When "Flight Design" is as familiar as "Cessna" or "Cessna Skyhawk", to other pilots that would be great.. Educating controllers what a Flight Design is is a laudable goal, but getting that out to the greater part of the rest of the pilot population seems a reach.. Why not "Light Sport Flight Design" ? It's only two additional short syllables and it may not be "official" but could make the difference between listeners being clued in or clueless. ;-). . Alex
CT4ME Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 'much written on the topic, and as you can see anything works. I normally use CT ######. It varies by area and controller. Roger has his tower trained to "Flight Design", but they seem to switch to "CT" when I'm there. Also depends are whether you're talking to a local tower or Bravo/Charlie or a Flight Center. When they ask "type of aircraft?" Foxtrot Delta Charlie Tango usually works... but don't be surprised if they refer to you later as "light sport" or "experimental". tim
Doug G. Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 I am trying to think if I have ever heard anyone refer to themselves as Experimental. Can't think of anyone, but my experience is limited. I know when the P-51 was in the pattern he didn't use experimental, he used Mustang! :-)
FastEddieB Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 I am trying to think if I have ever heard anyone refer to themselves as Experimental. Well, if Experimental it IS mandatory to prefix your call sign with that on your first call to an ATC facility. So, it's " Knoxville Approach, Experimental Sky Arrow 467SA..." Sky Arrows are much rarer than CT's, so often the query is, "Say again aircraft type?" To which I reply, "Sky Arrow. It's an Italian Light Sport, designator Sierra Kilo Alpha Romeo*". On occasion, various ATC's have just called me Experimental, and will often use that descriptor when pointing me out as traffic. *And, typing this out, for the first time I noticed Alpha Romeo is kind of appropriate, if slightly misspelled!
Adam Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 In SoCal I was trained to use "Light Sport" (whether right or wrong its what the school taught). While on my checkride the examiner seemed very content with that during radio transmissions and at a recent bi-annual flight review. On rare occassion I'll get asked aircraft type (usually by So Cal Approach as I enter the basin) and of course respond "Foxtrot Delta Charlie Tango". Keep in mind there are over 100 types of light sport airplanes flying. There are only approximately 350 CT's in the whole USA (so less than 7 planes per state on average) and we are the "market leader". Air traffic control (in most areas) doesn't know a Flight Design (as we do) from a Sport Cruiser from a Tecnam blah blah blah... unless there is one in the area and they become familiar. The name "light sport" conveys much IMHO (slow, 2 place, small, are adjectives that fit all 100+ LSA's). Seems easier for ATC to know and remember what "light sport" means versus a specific brand.
FastEddieB Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 Again, the official take: Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name followed by the digits/ letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped (e.g. Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha). EXAMPLE: BONANZA SIX FIVE FIVE GOLF. EXAMPLE: BREEZY SIX ONE THREE ROMEO EXPERIMENTAL (omit "Experimental" after initial contact). So, you are given several acceptable options.
Ed Cesnalis Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 Again, the official take: Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name followed by the digits/ letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped (e.g. Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha). EXAMPLE: BONANZA SIX FIVE FIVE GOLF. EXAMPLE: BREEZY SIX ONE THREE ROMEO EXPERIMENTAL (omit "Experimental" after initial contact). So, you are given several acceptable options. The 3 options being Land Based Aircraft CT2K, CTSW, CTSL or CTLSi Flight Design Of the examples used by members here 'Flight Design' would be correct
Al Downs Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 Controllers are becoming familiar with our planes. As you may know when going into Air Venture there are no radio communications by the pilot. When I flew into Oshkosh this past year the controllers on the ground at Fisk said "white Flight Design over Fisk, wag your wings". With some controllers you may need to add something else if they don't get it the first time but they are learning.
FastEddieB Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 The 3 options being Land Based Aircraft CT2K, CTSW, CTSL or CTLSi Flight Design Yeah, "type" threw me off as well. I think they're using it informally here.
Ed Cesnalis Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 Yeah, "type" threw me off as well. I think they're using it informally here. Other types work better like 'helicopter' Type Land Based Aircraft Seaplane Amphibian Helicopter Dirigible (Airship) Gyrocopter Tilt-Wing Aircraft
Tom Baker Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 Controllers are becoming familiar with our planes. As you may know when going into Air Venture there are no radio communications by the pilot. When I flew into Oshkosh this past year the controllers on the ground at Fisk said "white Flight Design over Fisk, wag your wings". With some controllers you may need to add something else if they don't get it the first time but they are learning. I've also been called a :angry: Remos at Oshkosh
mocfly Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 My initial call to clearance delivery at CHA CHA Clearance Flight Design 530 CT request (1st call). Contained within Chattanooga ATIS statement "departing aircraft state 1)aircraft type 2)direction of flight 3)requested altitude 4) direction of flight 5) whether you are vfr or IFR Clearance: 530CT clearance delivery go ahead My Response: Cha clearance delivery 530ct is a "Foxtrot Delta Charlie Tango" then the rest of the required information based on my flight. When handed off to different controlling authorities while on flight following my initial call to them is "New York Approach "Flight Design 530CT 5500 heading 220" They come back with 530ct radar contact and then give me the local altimeter.. I have at times had controllers and other ask what type of aircraft 530CT is and "NEVER" use the work experimental. I once had a 15 minute conversation with the guys in ATLANTA when they queried my while I scooted directly above the center of the airport at 6500ft on my way back from Sebring at at 145knot groundspeed..At a little after midnight.
FastEddieB Posted January 11, 2014 Report Posted January 11, 2014 Got it. I misread your post - thought you were saying that YOU never used the term Experimental, and I thought, "Well, duh!)
Acensor Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Posted January 11, 2014 HI Alex, Consider this,...... ......A light sport can fly in at 120 knots or 40 knots. A GA can fly in at 120 knots or 40 knots too depending on the plane. When I approach from 5-10 miles out I'm faster than several GA aircraft so speed shouldn't be a factor. I fly at 110 knots right into the downwind...... ....A light sport aircraft is not in the FAA or the ICAO manuals for an ID. A light sport may be a high wing, low wing or a Trike, ect... FDCT isn't really a call sign like Piper, Cessna or flight design, but an ICAO identifier in the controllers manual. ... ... All true, but "Light Sport" still DOES convey, as I listed, a whole set of specific information. More than the acceptable "experimental" . But why not throw in "light sport" as well? "Flight Design Light Sport Niner Six Foxtrot Bravo"? Just two syllables extra and still educating the controllers and listeners. Actually even more.... as they've at least learned that a Flight Design is a Light Sport, which could well be more than they knew before. ;-) ... Bet you money that if you walk into FBOs (other than your own or others where a CT is based) and ask pilots and staff, "what's a Flight Design aircraft" and "what's a Light Sport" you'll get more, and more reasonably accurate, answers to the latter question. And that FDCT pretty good odds it draws a blank when you ask "what would you be looking for if you were told there's an FDCT at your altitude at 2 o'clock?" Alex
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