Jim Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 I've been following this topic with interest, partly because my airplane has vintage ignition modules and partly because as an engineer I'd like to know what's going on. From what I've read, the modules don't fail in flight, they usually both fail at the same time, and new modules don't fail. If they don't fail in flight, when do they fail? I'm guessing either at engine start, or at engine shutdown. Why would this be? I'm guessing either some sort of inductive surge, or possibly the modules ending up in some type of parasitic SCR latchup. Don't worry if you don't know what that means. I'm also guessing that Rotax/Franz/Ducati or whoever makes the module knows about the problem and has fixed it in later modules. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 It typically is the starting circuit. It can totally fail or become intermittent. I have never seen on fail in flight, but that doesn't mean it has never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Kevin at CPS said the starting circuit on one fails, but you likely don't notice it since most ignitions switches have "BOTH" on for starting. In my Sky Arrow, I may have noticed the failure of module 2 when it started not starting on IGN2 alone, as the BullyHawk wants. Still started when I switched IGN1 on, but now that one may have failed as well. I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2FlyAgain Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 My aircraft is a very early 2005 CTSW. The last few times that I went flying this summer, the engine was progressively more difficult to start. A week ago, I couldn't get it to start at all. The battery was replaced last summer. It was attached to a new "Battery Tender" with temperature compensation essentially 24/7 since then. After reading the Rotax "Soft Start" thread and a couple of related threads, I decided to try the "bag of ice" on the ignition modules as Roger Lee described in the "soft start" thread. The engine started just fine after "chilling" the ignition modules for 30 minutes. Thanks Roger! I don't think that "have ice...will fly..." is a very practical plan for the summer months. So, it looks like I am joining those searching for new ignition modules. Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opticsguy Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 My understanding was that the modules are fine if the engine is over 2200 RPM or so. During cranking the RPM is much lower and the alternator isn't generating much voltage at all. I had a post about my modules failing in 2009 (2006 CTSW), but I can't seem to find it anymore). Anyway, the new modules did the trick. My theory: 2005/6 was the early days of lead-free solder in the EU. The soldering temperatures of the new formulations were not optimized in the early days. Our company had to replace tens of thousands of circuit boards where components had popped off. It's quite possible that a components had separated from it's circuit board and would only re-connect when ice was applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 2006 and 2007 seem to be the problem years. They seemed to have cropped up almost overnight and there seems to be a number of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I have a mid-2007 model, and this might crop up at some point. Is the best course if it happens still to get both modules replaced with the soft start versions for $900-1000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Always replace both since it probably won't start and that was your first clue you have a problem. You must have two standard or two soft start modules, you can't mix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Always replace both since it probably won't start and that was your first clue you have a problem. You must have two standard or two soft start modules, you can't mix them. Right, but I know it used to be something like $900 for one replacement module, or $900 for the soft start kit that included BOTH soft start modules. Is that still the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Yes, but more like $950 or $990 from Lockwood and CPS respectively. I have orders in to both - and both understand I'll cancel if the other comes through first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 If you order the standard modules they are about $1100 each. If you order a pair of soft start modules they are about $950 for the pair. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 If you order the standard modules they are about $1100 each. If you order a pair of soft start modules they are about $950 for the pair. Go figure. So maybe I should pull my standard modules, sell them on eBay for $800 each, buy the soft start modules for $950, and pocket $650... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Good luck. You might get $300 for the old pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I plan on sending my old ones to Lockwood for testing. If they're good, I'll sell them. If they're bad, I know someone who wants them for experimenting, and I'll go ahead and let him have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4Flier Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Yes, but more like $950 or $990 from Lockwood and CPS respectively. I have orders in to both - and both understand I'll cancel if the other comes through first. The modules haven't come into CPS as planned on 8/18 and they're supposed to get back to me when they have a new date. Have you had any luck with Lockwood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I was going to call both tomorrow, and I will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4Flier Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Eddie -- you can save time: CPS -- Called yesterday and spoke to a couple people. They are going to call or email me once they have an updated date. Lockwood - Called today and they don't have a date for when they will receive the back order. Also mentioned there were none in the US Leading Edge - Called today. Back ordered and will not arrive until at least the last week of September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I feel for you guys...there is nothing worse than sitting around waiting for parts to be able to fly. Hopefully the weather in your areas sucks, so you are not missing much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 There are only 8-10 upgrades coming into Rotax in the Bahamas at a time. They service all the Americas and not just the US. They are behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4Flier Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I feel for you guys...there is nothing worse than sitting around waiting for parts to be able to fly. Hopefully the weather in your areas sucks, so you are not missing much. Unfortunately, the Dallas summer weather has been much cooler than prior years with a lot of great flying days. :-( My downtime has been also compounded by an additional 3 weeks to get my D100 fixed as well. I just think of all that $$$ I'm saving by not flying :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Boo! As a data point, I pulled off my BullyHawk SoftStart module yesterday. No joy either before or after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4Flier Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 CPS called today and the ignition modules are at their distributor but CPS won't get the shipment until they have a full load which should be 7-10 days. They tried to get them drop shipped to me but it was not possible. Might be back in the air in 2 weeks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Well, I just had Brenda from CPS call to tell me the modules were "12 to 16 weeks out". But to maybe call in about 10 weeks to see if any came in (!). Lockwood has not gotten back to me yet. I'm pretty easy going, but this is awfully disappointing. I'll be grounded for the rest of the summer and into the spring. I've been loathe to say anything bad about ROTAX, but this kind of parts availability is unacceptable, and would have me taking it into consideration if ever buying another plane. If anyone gets a line on where else one might get these modules, please let me know. Monday I may call my insurance company and either cancel my policy temporarily or put it into "not in motion" mode to save on premiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Dang Eddie, that is pretty disappointing indeed. Plus you don't actually know for 100% this is the fix right? (or did I miss something). But to wait that long and not even be sure.. I mean it seems pretty obvious at this point. But still.. sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Well, I just had Brenda from CPS call to tell me the modules were "12 to 16 weeks out". ... . I'll be grounded for the rest of the summer and into the spring. Eddie, I knew you were 'special'. Are you Merlin? PS sorry your grounded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.