SI-912-016-R8

[Tom Baker]

Soon, but not today.  My plane is reassembled, but I have to make some test flights first before flying "for realz".  I'm waiting for a near perfect day to do my test flights, since it's been six weeks since I've flown.   I'm at work today (can't you tell!) and by the time I get out this afternoon the winds are supposed to kick up to ~14 knots.

Andy, if you really do need to make some test flights, and I think that you do. You need to take a look at 91.407.

[gbigs]

Yes, a full synthetic oil is good to use if you EXCLUSIVELY use unleaded fuel.  But most of us can't guarantee that, or at least want the option to use 100LL if we have to.  

 

For example, when I fly to Page in October, that's a 1400nm trip, and I expect on my fuel stops there will no mogas available at the airfields.  So having the ability to use 100LL at those locations is a firm requirement of the trip.  If you never go more than 400nm from your home field, or one that has mogas available, then you can get away with a full synthetic oil.  Most need the flexibility to fuel with what's available.

 

One question.  This is honest, and not meant to be snarky or accusatory:  During the trip where you ran the airplane fuel down to just the header tank, was one of the reasons that you didn't stop en route for fuel because you were using a full syn oil and you could not fuel with 100LL, and no mogas was available at the fields in your route?

 

You can still use 100LL if you also use Decalin to treat the lead (as I do on long trips when I can't get mogas on an airfield).  The Mobil 1 4T motorcycle racing oil is better for the Rotax engine than Aeroshell.  It is designed for high performance, high RPM motorcycle racing engines which in essence is the Rotax 912.  

 

Aeroshell is a semi-synthetic and you are kinda stuck with it if you use untreated 100LL as most do.  The Rotax engine is designed to run on unleaded fuel.

 

 And it is dangerous to assume that 'oil is oil' as Eddie suggested.  The chemistry of lubricating oil with its varying viscosity and various additives make oil specific to their intended engines, climates and usages. 

[FlyingMonkey]

You can still use 100LL if you also use Decalin to treat the lead (as I do on long trips when I can't get mogas on an airfield).  The Mobil 1 4T motorcycle racing oil is better for the Rotax engine than Aeroshell.  It is designed for high performance, high RPM motorcycle racing engines which in essence is the Rotax 912.  

 

 

 

I think you might be setting yourself up for problems if you use a full synthetic and rely on Decalin to scavenge lead from your fuel.  

 

I have never seen Rotax say the Mobil oil is better than the Aeroshell.  I only see two oils that are both recommended by the manufacturer.  They have not expressed a preference, except where leaded fuel is used.

[FlyingMonkey]

Andy, if you really do need to make some test flights, and I think that you do. You need to take a look at 91.407.

 

Thanks.  (a)(1) and (a)(2) have been satisfied, as has I believe ( c ) as well, which renders ( b ) unnecessary.  

 

"Test flight" is probably the wrong term here.  I'd say "verification flight" is more apt.  The stab is in an identical position and configuration to the original installation, and will not change flight characteristics.  All I'm doing is a first flight following maintenance that should not change the aerodynamics or flight characteristics of the aircraft.

 

In any event, I will not be carrying passengers until I'm satisfied everything is working as expected.

[Roger Lee]

You should not be using full synthetic with 100LL even with Decalin. The full synthetic oil will not suspended the lead and it will fall out into the gearbox and crankcase. If you had full synthetic in and had to use some 100LL for a one time type use no real problem especially if it got partially mixed with 91 oct., but if you plan on using tank after tank of 100LL then a semi synthetic is for you.

 

Rotax can't and won't test all the oils worldwide.  So they check a few and then give you specs to follow if you use a different brand. There is more than one decent oil on the market for our use.

When you think about Rotax recommendations and publications you MUST think worldwide use and not just USA specific.

[gbigs]

I think you might be setting yourself up for problems if you use a full synthetic and rely on Decalin to scavenge lead from your fuel.  

 

I have never seen Rotax say the Mobil oil is better than the Aeroshell.  I only see two oils that are both recommended by the manufacturer.  They have not expressed a preference, except where leaded fuel is used.

 

My information comes from Rotax West . 

 

The Mobil 1 4T oil controls temperature better than Aeroshell which is a problem for the Rotax in climbs on high DA days.  And the oil resist temperature breakdown better than the Aeroshell.  I never see yellow anymore, always did with Aeroshell.  Also, the motorcycle racing oil is designed for high RPM, engine and gearbox work both which cuts down on wear in the gearbox.

 

Consult with Rotax directly on the subject.  You may still not change your approach, but at least you will find out why its better.

[gbigs]

You should not be using full synthetic with 100LL even with Decalin. The full synthetic oil will not suspended the lead and it will fall out into the gearbox and crankcase. If you had full synthetic in and had to use some 100LL for a one time type use no real problem especially if it got partially mixed with 91 oct., but if you plan on using tank after tank of 100LL then a semi synthetic is for you.

 

Rotax can't and won't test all the oils worldwide.  So they check a few and then give you specs to follow if you use a different brand. There is more than one decent oil on the market for our use.

When you think about Rotax recommendations and publications you MUST think worldwide use and not just USA specific.

 

It is okay to use full synthetic even with an 'occasional' tank of 100LL according to Rotax West.  Using the TCP gives a little better margin on that situation.  But once on full syn, there is no return.  Again according to Rotax.

[FastEddieB]

 

 

Rotax can't and won't test all the oils worldwide.  So they check a few and then give you specs to follow if you use a different brand. There is more than one decent oil on the market for our use.

 

Roger,

 

Just curious...

 

Have you ever seen evidence of any failure or premature wear due to the lubricating properties of any oil in a ROTAX?

[FredG]

Eddie is right.  The Rotax 912 is a gasoline-burning reciprocating piston engine with very conventional specifications.  The fact that is has a gearbox and a wet-clutch bathed in engine oil makes it just like hundreds of motorcycle engine designs.  It is unimaginable that the Rotax 912 needs an oil that is made for just the Rotax 912. 

 

Few manufacturers test every oil. That's why engines have design standards and oils have national and international specifications (API and JASO). 

 

So, the point remains, are other motor oils (including synthetic oils) that were designed for engines with gearboxes and wet clutches bathed in engine oil acceptable for use in the Rotax 912?  If yes, which ones?  As is often the case with Rotax, clear answers are not easily found. 

[FredG]

Roger.  Regarding your post #73.  Follow the link.  It describes the development of the earlier Sport 4 Plus, not the new formulation.  The SB it refers to is three years old. 

[Top Cat]

My information comes from Rotax West . 

 

The Mobil 1 4T oil controls temperature better than Aeroshell which is a problem for the Rotax in climbs on high DA days.  And the oil resist temperature breakdown better than the Aeroshell.  I never see yellow anymore, always did with Aeroshell.  Also, the motorcycle racing oil is designed for high RPM, engine and gearbox work both which cuts down on wear in the gearbox.

 

Consult with Rotax directly on the subject.  You may still not change your approach, but at least you will find out why its better.

 

 

It is okay to use full synthetic even with an 'occasional' tank of 100LL according to Rotax West.  Using the TCP gives a little better margin on that situation.  But once on full syn, there is no return.  Again according to Rotax.

This is from Rotax:-

 

Shell Aviation introduces the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4, developed in collaboration with BRP-Rotax Written by  Rotax-Owner

• font size  
• Print 
• Email 
• Add new comment

 

Shell Aviation has introduced the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4, the second generation of its piston engine oil, specifically designed for light sport and very light/ultralight aircraft 4-stroke engines. Shell Aviation has collaborated with major engine manufacturer, BRP-Rotax, in designing the new product, which is the result of three years of development and testing in both companies’ Research and Development facilities.

The new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 offers the following core benefits:

 

• It is the first aviation oil in the market that is BRP-Rotax tested and is Rotax Norm RON 424 approved.
• Provides enhanced anti-wear protection compared to the previous generation – helping to ensure engines reach time between overhaul (TBO).
• Provides enhanced protection and lubricity for the smooth movement of clutch and gearbox components.

 

“Throughout the past 100 years, we have made it a priority to understand our customers’ needs so we can provide the best products for their businesses,” said Stéphane Cicolella, Global General Manager Shell Aviation Lubricants. “We are delighted to introduce the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 and excited about our continued cooperation with BRP-Rotax. Through this collaboration, we are better able to test the product in a number of different conditions and leverage both companies’ expertise for the benefit of our customers.”

 

 

Most current 4-stroke engines come with integrated gearbox and overload clutch systems. The same oil is in contact with all the moving parts, so it must be capable of coping with the engine, overload clutch and gearbox simultaneously. The new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 is ideal as it is extremely resistant to the immense shear forces that occur in areas of high-pressure contact such as high-speed gearboxes, valve trains, bearings, pistons and liners. This is where the blend of base oil and additives is most crucial. The new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 incorporates a blend of synthetic technology and high performance additives to help provide long lasting protection.

 

 

Thomas Uhr, General Manager BRP-Powertrain said, “The collaboration of BRP-Rotax with Shell goes back to 2004. Our decision to work with the AeroShell team on the development of the new formulation for AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 was based on the benefits the new formulation would provide to our customers. This joint development is supported by 40 years of Rotax aircraft engines, 25 years and more than 50.000 engines produced within the Rotax 912/914 engines with more than 45 million hours of flight.

 

We are convinced of the performance of the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 and that is why we will recommend this product exclusively in our revised Service Information which will be released soon. BRP-Rotax will continue using AeroShell aviation lubricants and is excited about this new phase of technical collaboration."

 

The product is now available. For further product information and availability please contact an authorized AeroShell distributor. 

 

New AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 - At a Glance

• Multi-grade oil designed to be used in any climate, anywhere in the world.
• Same formulation all over the world, not to be changed without consultation with the main OEMs (including BRP-Rotax).
• Specially selected base oils incorporating synthetic technology to help prevent sludge problems when operating with leaded fuels. This also provides excellent shear stability.
• Can be used with both unleaded aviation and road fuels and Avgas 100LL. Please refer to the Operators Handbook/Manual for the correct oil drain interval when operating on different fuels.
• Additive technology, developed to meet the Rotax Norm RON 424 requirements of integrated gearbox and overload clutches (as used in ROTAX® 912 & 914 Series).
• Anti–corrosion and anti-wear additive package. These additives work as a protective barrier to help prevent critical parts from being slowly degraded by corrosion or wear. This protection is crucial for critical internal parts, reducing the likelihood of premature damage.
• Powerful anti-oxidation action to help protect and clean engine parts.
• Anti-foaming additives designed to help maximize lubrication effectiveness. This is extremely important for those engines which operate with an integrated gearbox.
• Special additives help to neutralize acid build-up.
• The base fluid mixture is a combination of synthetic and high quality mineral oil chosen to give optimum performance when running on any approved fuel (i.e. unleaded mogas/avgas and lead containing aviation fuels). Optimum performance means excellent wear protection and cleanliness of the engine.

  Meets or Exceeds Highest International Specifications

• Fully Approved – All ROTAX® 912 &914 Series engines: Rotax Service Instruction SI-912-016/SI-912i-001/SI-914-019 “Selection of suitable operating fluids for ROTAX® engine type 912 & 914 (Series)” will be released soon
• RON 424 OEM specification (new Rotax Norm)
• JASO MA

[Anticept]

I just looked at the service instruction. I find it interesting that the removed all references to any other oil.

[gbigs]

Here is a full discussion on the Rotax 912 for oil, fuels, and coolant...    http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed4.htm

 

In general, Rotax frowns on 100LL and says the engine will run on it, but the lead acts like 'cholesterol' to the engine.

 

Rotax recommends using a high quality, major brand, 4-stroke motorcycle oil with gear additives and “SF” or “SG” API classification. This is precisely what Mobil 1 4T motorcycle racing oil is and notes the oil is especially recommended for the gearbox.

 

The article also admonishes the use of any non Rotax approved oil filter and also gives spark plug recommendations.

[WmInce]

 

This is from Rotax:-

 

Shell Aviation introduces the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4, developed in collaboration with BRP-Rotax Written by  Rotax-Owner

• font size  
• Print 
• Email 
• Add new comment

 

Shell Aviation has introduced the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4, the second generation of its piston engine oil, specifically designed for light sport and very light/ultralight aircraft 4-stroke engines. Shell Aviation has collaborated with major engine manufacturer, BRP-Rotax, in designing the new product, which is the result of three years of development and testing in both companies’ Research and Development facilities.

The new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 offers the following core benefits:

 

• It is the first aviation oil in the market that is BRP-Rotax tested and is Rotax Norm RON 424 approved.
• Provides enhanced anti-wear protection compared to the previous generation – helping to ensure engines reach time between overhaul (TBO).
• Provides enhanced protection and lubricity for the smooth movement of clutch and gearbox components.

 

“Throughout the past 100 years, we have made it a priority to understand our customers’ needs so we can provide the best products for their businesses,” said Stéphane Cicolella, Global General Manager Shell Aviation Lubricants. “We are delighted to introduce the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 and excited about our continued cooperation with BRP-Rotax. Through this collaboration, we are better able to test the product in a number of different conditions and leverage both companies’ expertise for the benefit of our customers.”

 

 

Most current 4-stroke engines come with integrated gearbox and overload clutch systems. The same oil is in contact with all the moving parts, so it must be capable of coping with the engine, overload clutch and gearbox simultaneously. The new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 is ideal as it is extremely resistant to the immense shear forces that occur in areas of high-pressure contact such as high-speed gearboxes, valve trains, bearings, pistons and liners. This is where the blend of base oil and additives is most crucial. The new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 incorporates a blend of synthetic technology and high performance additives to help provide long lasting protection.

 

 

Thomas Uhr, General Manager BRP-Powertrain said, “The collaboration of BRP-Rotax with Shell goes back to 2004. Our decision to work with the AeroShell team on the development of the new formulation for AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 was based on the benefits the new formulation would provide to our customers. This joint development is supported by 40 years of Rotax aircraft engines, 25 years and more than 50.000 engines produced within the Rotax 912/914 engines with more than 45 million hours of flight.

 

We are convinced of the performance of the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 and that is why we will recommend this product exclusively in our revised Service Information which will be released soon. BRP-Rotax will continue using AeroShell aviation lubricants and is excited about this new phase of technical collaboration."

 

The product is now available. For further product information and availability please contact an authorized AeroShell distributor. 

 

New AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 - At a Glance

• Multi-grade oil designed to be used in any climate, anywhere in the world.
• Same formulation all over the world, not to be changed without consultation with the main OEMs (including BRP-Rotax).
• Specially selected base oils incorporating synthetic technology to help prevent sludge problems when operating with leaded fuels. This also provides excellent shear stability.
• Can be used with both unleaded aviation and road fuels and Avgas 100LL. Please refer to the Operators Handbook/Manual for the correct oil drain interval when operating on different fuels.
• Additive technology, developed to meet the Rotax Norm RON 424 requirements of integrated gearbox and overload clutches (as used in ROTAX® 912 & 914 Series).
• Anti–corrosion and anti-wear additive package. These additives work as a protective barrier to help prevent critical parts from being slowly degraded by corrosion or wear. This protection is crucial for critical internal parts, reducing the likelihood of premature damage.
• Powerful anti-oxidation action to help protect and clean engine parts.
• Anti-foaming additives designed to help maximize lubrication effectiveness. This is extremely important for those engines which operate with an integrated gearbox.
• Special additives help to neutralize acid build-up.
• The base fluid mixture is a combination of synthetic and high quality mineral oil chosen to give optimum performance when running on any approved fuel (i.e. unleaded mogas/avgas and lead containing aviation fuels). Optimum performance means excellent wear protection and cleanliness of the engine.

  Meets or Exceeds Highest International Specifications

• Fully Approved – All ROTAX® 912 &914 Series engines: Rotax Service Instruction SI-912-016/SI-912i-001/SI-914-019 “Selection of suitable operating fluids for ROTAX® engine type 912 & 914 (Series)” will be released soon
• RON 424 OEM specification (new Rotax Norm)
• JASO MA

 

 

Thanks for the current and correct information Top Cat.

[Jim Meade]

I just looked at the service instruction. I find it interesting that the removed all references to any other oil.

Closely read paragraph 6.

[Top Cat]

  This is what Shell says about motorcycle oils in use in aviation. Looks like the new Shell Sport Plus 4 oil is an improvement over the previous version and is designed 'specifically' for aviation use and not adapted for aviation use, as with previously used motorcycle grade oil. There is an upcoming SI from Rotax.

 

 

 

"In The Past

Historically - operators of these types of engines have had to rely on commercially available motorcycle oils. This may lead to issues, such as formulation changes that follow the needs of the motorcycle market. These formulation changes can be made without notification to the aviation community, because motorcycle oils are not required to meet the same specification as aviation oils. Motorcycle oils also tend to have limited ability when dealing with leaded fuels used in aviation – Avgas 100LL.

Innovation

By working with the major engine manufacturers, Shell Aviation is proud to announce the latest addition to the AeroShell family – Sport Plus 4. For the first time, across the world, aviators will be able to obtain a true aviation oil specifically suited for light sport and very light/ ultralight aircraft 4-stroke engines."

 

[Anticept]

I've been really sick the past week, so I'm not reading too well

 

I tend to not care much about company marketing announcements, and prefer to read technical documentation. Anyways, nothing I can do about it. As long as aeroshell doesn't play the vendor lock in game (jack prices to obscenity because "screw you, pay me"), I'll be fine.

[Roger Lee]

Hi Eddie,

 

I haven't seen or heard of anyone having issues using any semi or full synthetic oil. Here is a major problem with that statement. Many owners only fly 40 hours a year. So there are not a lot of high time engines out there that are using what some may want to label as a substandard oil for this particular engine. Here is the problem. You may use a substandard part or fluid and because you don't fly enough hours a year and there aren't lots of other people using that product putting high time hours on with it the problem usually doesn't show up for years or hundreds of hours later.

I agree this engine is pretty close to a high performance motorcycle engine and that means other oils will work just fine so then you need to take into consideration the guys that use lower spec'ed oil filters for this engine and people that leave oil in until they get old and die. Then the son changes it. Don't laugh, it happens.

I do know there are a few oils that Rotax absolutely warns people away from in their engine due to suspected issues. If I can remember I'll ask Rotax when I go back in May. I used to know, but that was years ago and I forgot because I can't quit getting older.

 

There are other decsent oils out there that will perform just fine in this engine. All are motorcycle oils and most are 10-40W and either semi or full synthetic.

Mobile 1 Racing 4T

Honda GN4

Aero Shell Sport Plus 4

Amsoil 

Golden Spectro 4

 

There are some high time engines out there that have used straight oil and not a synthetic. They have had issues long term, owners using lots of 100LL and not doing a gearbox service to clean the lead out. A straight weight oil will kill your engine faster than anything.

 

Here is a slightly dated article commissioned by Amsoil. It gives some good basic things you want in a motorcycle oil and which oils have what. Since many of us can't do spectro analysis on all these oils you can at least get an idea here.

 

 

Some of these things mentioned here is why it took Aero Shell 8 years to come up with a formula that they and Rotax liked. They put on thousands of hours and engine tear downs to see what was going on. Who does that in the field.

Here is the big $64K question for everyone.

 

 

With all the time and money spent on investigating and developing the new Aero Shell oil specific for the Rotax versus none of the other oil companies that may have their product used in the Rotax 912, do you believe they may have a better grasp and a better product to use in our specific application?

 

I'm not going to answer this. It's up to each user.

I have my personal preference and I know others here have theirs.

 

 

Oil Comparison.pdf

[FastEddieB]

Thanks, Roger.

 

Any of you N GA, E TN or W NC guys want to split a case of the newly formulated AeroShell?

 

I doubt I'd go through 12 qts in two years, but 6 should be easy.

[Anticept]

I already ordered 2 cases . I want to order it in small drums, we go through it so quickly.

[Doug G.]

So what happens to oil that gets old in the bottle?

[FlyingMonkey]

Is there a reason to leap into the new oil if I have a fresh case of the old stuff in my hangar?

[Jim Meade]

Is there a reason to leap into the new oil if I have a fresh case of the old stuff in my hangar?

Reread Msg # 52 or para 3.3 of the SB. The basic question is, what do the words mean?

[Roger Lee]

Hi Andy,

Use it. I have some too. It was good for the engine before and most likely thousands of engines ran on it without issues. They were just looking for a better mouse trap. 

There is a ton of it still out there. I seriously doubt, just like Rotax, that everyone would just toss case after case into the garbage. When I talked to the Rotax folks that was their response too.

 

 

What are some peoples mantra here:

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

 

It wasn't broke, just a new model.

[Jacques]

here is another one     http://www.bullyhawk.com/products/oil-products/syngard-10w-40/

 

 

sold (promoted) by a Rotax repair/ training center    http://www.flysmla.com/

 

 

?

:unsure: