FlyingMonkey Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Hi Andy, Use it. I have some too. It was good for the engine before and most likely thousands of engines ran on it without issues. They were just looking for a better mouse trap. There is a ton of it still out there. I seriously doubt, just like Rotax, that everyone would just toss case after case into the garbage. When I talked to the Rotax folks that was their response too. What are some peoples mantra here: Don't fix it if it ain't broke. It wasn't broke, just a new model. That's what I figured. Honestly, I have not opened the new case of oil I got last week...maybe I'll get lucky and find red bottles? Or is the new stuff not yet really in the supply chain yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Hi Andy, Use it. I have some too. It was good for the engine before and most likely thousands of engines ran on it without issues. They were just looking for a better mouse trap. There is a ton of it still out there. I seriously doubt, just like Rotax, that everyone would just toss case after case into the garbage. When I talked to the Rotax folks that was their response too. What are some peoples mantra here: Don't fix it if it ain't broke. It wasn't broke, just a new model. Roger, in your talking with Rotax folks, did they give any indication as to why they wrote to obey the expiration date but said to ignore it? Who were the Rotax folks? Rotax corporate or some other official Rotax employee, or just someone who has worked with Rotax? Don't you think it is a little two-faced for Rotax to print one thing and speak another? Based on your experience with Rotax folks, how are we customers supposed to know whether to follow their written word or their spoken word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Someone help me here... In Sections 3.2 and 3.3 of SI-912-016R8 (16 April 2015), ROTAX recommended only AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 (with new formulation in red bottle) for use in the 912 engine (for both unleaded fuel and leaded fuel). However, in Section 6.4 of the same document, ROTAX recommended "use of a high quality full synthetic oil" when operating with unleaded fuels and when engine oil temperatures often exceed 250 degrees F. Any idea which "high quality full synthetic oil" this SB might be recommending (since none are recommended in the section that recommends oil)? I am not asking for personal opinions. I am asking how I can be in compliance with ROTAX recommendations made in the most recent SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Then there is this- ▲ WARNING: Non-compliance with these recommendations could result in engine damage, personal injury or death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Then there is this- ▲ WARNING: Non-compliance with these recommendations could result in engine damage, personal injury or death! I think they forgot to mention halitosis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Someone help me here... In Sections 3.2 and 3.3 of SI-912-016R8 (16 April 2015), ROTAX recommended only AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 (with new formulation in red bottle) for use in the 912 engine (for both unleaded fuel and leaded fuel). However, in Section 6.4 of the same document, ROTAX recommended "use of a high quality full synthetic oil" when operating with unleaded fuels and when engine oil temperatures often exceed 250 degrees F. Any idea which "high quality full synthetic oil" this SB might be recommending (since none are recommended in the section that recommends oil)? I am not asking for personal opinions. I am asking how I can be in compliance with ROTAX recommendations made in the most recent SB. Mobil 1 4T Motorcycle Racing Oil 10-40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 There is a big list of good full synthetic motorcycle oils out on the web. Some of these choices are dependent on where you live in the world and maybe even where you live in the US, but now days everything can be shipped. Read the article I posted in the previous post and they list full synthetic oils and rate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Expiration dates are just like food expiration dates. It's best used by, but by no means is it spoiled and un-eatable by then. A re-test date is just a date set so the user will have it checked and make sure it's okay. If they absolutely thought it was going to be bad by then then I would think it would be a discard and do not use date not a re-test date. I never have oils sit that long. I buy 3-4 cases at a time every few months. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Expiration dates are just like food expiration dates. It's best used by, but by no means is it spoiled and un-eatable by then. A re-test date is just a date set so the user will have it checked and make sure it's okay. If they absolutely thought it was going to be bad by then then I would think it would be a discard and do not use date not a re-test date. I never have oils sit that long. I buy 3-4 cases at a time every few months. Just a thought. If you have a lot of it left, just half the oil change interval and use it faster....your engine will smile.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I think they forgot to mention halitosis! I've told you not to gargle with the bloody stuff!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Roger, I read that article years ago. My question has to do with the new ROTAX SB that clearly recommended exclusive use of AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4. Apparently, nobody is willing to state that, clearly, ROTAX has contradicted itself by stating that only one motor oil is recommended for the 912 series (i.e., the new AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4) AND that full synthetic oil (of unknown specification) is recommended when oil temperatures exceed 250 degrees F. I get it. ROTAX provides an SB that is not consistent with itself, and ROTAX owners should just act like that's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Expiration dates are just like food expiration dates. It's best used by, but by no means is it spoiled and un-eatable by then. A re-test date is just a date set so the user will have it checked and make sure it's okay. If they absolutely thought it was going to be bad by then then I would think it would be a discard and do not use date not a re-test date. I never have oils sit that long. I buy 3-4 cases at a time every few months. Just a thought. I have had oil delivered that was almost 2 years past the expiration date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I have had oil delivered that was almost 2 years past the expiration date. Did you use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Use of oil past the "expiration date" is clearly contrary to the new ROTAX SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I have never heard of an "expiration date" for motor oil before today. What exactly "goes bad" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 It's just a line drawn in the sand. There was a handy date right on the bottle. There are lines drawn all over in our daily lives. Do we follow all of them? Fat Chance or we wouldn't have so many disagreements. Here's the problem. There is an issue at times with Austrian translations to English. There are the manuals that typically lag behind which could be years. Rotax then publishes all their SB, SA and SI's to supplement the manuals so they can eventually catch up. Then they write these for worldwide users with different regions and product availability. Then for the language used is it meant to be a recommendation or written in imperative meanings. Then they have a decision to make on where to draw that line in the sand, knowing that falling a little on either side probably isn't any big deal, but it had to be drawn somewhere.Is it perfect, no, but some common since has to be used. If you try to follow the letter of all these documents and rip apart and analyze every word then you will never get any sleep at night. When you end up like this you have to pick a few people that are close to the issues and believe them or go back to loosing sleep every night because you'll never have that 100% proof in your hand.So when someone says show me the documentation sometimes they are just going to have to loose sleep because there is none that they can hold in their hand. Rotax puts out blanket information, but sometimes they just don't produce the detail to make some people happy.I don't make the rules I have just learned to live within them and navigate through them. I have learned the people I can call that has the inside knowledge. There are only two of them and they don't live in the US. The only way I get to stay ahead of the game is to mingle with the insiders and keep furthering my education. Things in our field change and sometimes daily so not standing still too long in one place and keeping up with changes is a job in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Pretty much in agreement. But on the one hand we're warned about using a non-ROTAX filter and its implication on the factory warranty. Why not the same concern over expired oil? Again, I'm not losing sleep over it. Just looking for some consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Hi Eddie, There isn't any consistency. Each has its own merits to consider. You could do what Rotax recommends right down the line and never question it then you wouldn't ever have to worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 HOW would they tell if it's expired? Anyways, supposedly the oil oxidizes over time. There are additives to prevent this, but they are effective for only so long. But, the bottles are sealed. So how is any appreciable amount of oxygen getting in??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Someone help me here... In Sections 3.2 and 3.3 of SI-912-016R8 (16 April 2015), ROTAX recommended only AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 4 (with new formulation in red bottle) for use in the 912 engine (for both unleaded fuel and leaded fuel). However, in Section 6.4 of the same document, ROTAX recommended "use of a high quality full synthetic oil" when operating with unleaded fuels and when engine oil temperatures often exceed 250 degrees F. Any idea which "high quality full synthetic oil" this SB might be recommending (since none are recommended in the section that recommends oil)? I am not asking for personal opinions. I am asking how I can be in compliance with ROTAX recommendations made in the most recent SB. Fred, In an earlier post I included some info from Rotax regarding the updated AeroShellSport Plus 4 oil. Near the bottom they wrote:- Meets or Exceeds Highest International Specifications Fully Approved – All ROTAX® 912 &914 Series engines: Rotax Service Instruction SI-912-016/SI-912i-001/SI-914-019 “Selection of suitable operating fluids for ROTAX® engine type 912 & 914 (Series)” will be released soon RON 424 OEM specification (new Rotax Norm) JASO MA Looks like Rotax will be releasing a Service Instruction soon that will likely answer your question and add more clarity to the use of the 'new' oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Did you use it? No, and the place I got it from no longer sells aviation oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I have never heard of an "expiration date" for motor oil before today. What exactly "goes bad" ?? Andy, when I had the expired oil I mentioned earlier I called Aeroshell tech support to ask why. The short answer is that the oil changes over time. I think it has to do with 2 things. 1. The additives in the oil change as they age, leaving you not knowing if you are getting the correct amount. 2. There may be some leaching of chemicals from the container that effects the additives. They don't say flat out that the oil is bad, only that it needs to be tested to make sure it conforms to the standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Top Cat - yes, I have read all of the information available about the new oil. As far as I can tell, the document to "be released soon" is the SI provided in the original post of this thread. So, the SI to which you refer is, I think, in our possession now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 I have never had to worry about old oil so I never really have given it a lot of thought. Chemicals over time can breakdown sometimes. I'm sure that's why they would like it re-tested. I would think the producers in the UK has tested this after two years, but I don't know of any publications that give any credence one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 You could do what Rotax recommends right down the line and never question it then you wouldn't ever have to worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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