Tip Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 It's been awhile since seat belts have been discussed and I'm wondering if anyone has come up with a solution? My wife and I were DRIVEN into the roof my LS yesterday when we encountered a severe down draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 I busted my head through the top window once (that hurt), and went down this path of research. (FYI, I was doing zero Gs and just playing with the plane when I too hit a decent downdraft) Over time, the belts fibers start to fuzz a little, and the seat belt adjuster can lose it's edge a little. I've been told that by putting foil around the metal blade in the adjuster can help regain some of the "bite" by taking up some of the space. Haven't really tried it yet as my flying is on the back burner right now. Or, you can replace your belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Hi Corey, I was at Delaware yesterday and saw your plane there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 I hit my head on the cross beam in a downdraft 8 months ago. Since. I keep the belt cinched pretty tight when I know convective weather is around. And I make sure I sit back behind the beam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Hi Corey, I was at Delaware yesterday and saw your plane there. Yeah when I got news it had me pretty torn up (I'm an engineer at heart and probably care a little too much for my machines). Shane knows how to treat her though and I work with him a lot on things. I just don't have facilities for major repairs or I would do it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 My 2006 CTsw is Experimental. Last month I put a set of Crow cam-lock 5-point harnesses into the plane. I used the original mounts and brackets for the lap and shoulder harnesses. Drilled holes and mounted brackets for the anti-sub belt. These belts work. When tightened down, I am firmly attached to the seat. They don't come loose on their own, and if they did, you can have a small spring installed in the adjuster to keep them from loosening. Crow told me that they recommend the springs for the lap belt only for aerobatic flight. The harness has more "presence" than the factory harness, but I quickly forget that I have it on, once my attention is directed towards flying the plane. As far as I can tell, Crow and Hooker are both high quality brands for aircraft use. Many RV pilots install Crow harnesses. The Crow folks were very friendly and worked with me to get the order right. I would gladly purchase from them again. If you want photos, I can post some later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Thanks Fred. Could you post some pictures and what was the cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 To date, has anybody installed "inertia reel" type shoulder harnesses? That would be a big improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Aren't the seat belts part of the crash zone design for flight design? I would ask them about changing seat belts before doing it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 An easier and cheaper way to go is to change the webbing. Their are 3 basic thicknesses of webbing. FD is using the thinner more pliable webbing. They make a median and heavy grade webbing. Just take the belts out and have someone use some medium grade webbing and sew it up so it is exactly like the old webbing. It is thicker so it will not slide as easily through the fittings and stay in place. This webbing is a lot stronger than what's in there now. It would be a lot cheaper this way and you don't have to re-invent the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 See photos. About $200 per seat. Price varies by options selected. I went with 2" belts (actually 1 7/8"). Options I selected were cam lock buckle, padding on the shoulder straps, and the cross strap for shoulder harnesses to prevent them from sliding off the shoulders. If you use the original mounts (I did), you will have to remove them to slide the factory harness off of them (unless you cut the factory belt from the mount). I did have to make a new mount for the anti-sub belt, since the factory harness did not have one. If my memory serves, you should request "tube mount" if you use the factory mounting points. This lets you wrap the webbing around the faculty mounting point. Otherwise, you may get mounting hardware that is not compatible with the factory mounting system. I did not use any mounting hardware that was not original to the CT. I like these belts quite a bit and I am pleased with the modification. FWIW, I do not offer any assurance that my belts or belt modifications are safe for anyone or any situation. Modify your safety equipment at your own risk. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentuckynet Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 A few years back i posted pics of my hooker set i had custom made, as for the cost im not rich but i would have paid a million dollars for them when they were needed! Never had a seatbelt strap fall off my shoulder and feel very much ättached "to the aircraft! When you call hooker they will still have the design on file, my tail number will be on record with them N377CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 An easier and cheaper way to go is to change the webbing. Their are 3 basic thicknesses of webbing. FD is using the thinner more pliable webbing. They make a median and heavy grade webbing. Just take the belts out and have someone use some medium grade webbing and sew it up so it is exactly like the old webbing. It is thicker so it will not slide as easily through the fittings and stay in place. This webbing is a lot stronger than what's in there now. It would be a lot cheaper this way and you don't have to re-invent the wheel. MRA required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hi Andy, Think of the three monkeys. No see, no hear, no speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZAV8OR Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 An easier and cheaper way to go is to change the webbing. Their are 3 basic thicknesses of webbing. FD is using the thinner more pliable webbing. They make a median and heavy grade webbing. Just take the belts out and have someone use some medium grade webbing and sew it up so it is exactly like the old webbing. It is thicker so it will not slide as easily through the fittings and stay in place. This webbing is a lot stronger than what's in there now. It would be a lot cheaper this way and you don't have to re-invent the wheel.Hi Roger, Is there someone around us that will change my webbing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hi kevin, There should be shops all around up in your area. Just web search them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT_MATT Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Tip and I recently put Crow belts in our LS's. We debated the re-webbing route and opted for replacement. This way the old ones can always be put back if someone really wanted or pushed the issue... Crow Enterprizes http://www.crowenterprizes.comis a family business and were fantastic to work with. Fred is the owner and worked with us to get a reasonably priced set with uncomplicated buckles. After several flights with the new belts I am extremely pleased. They definitely stay put unlike the stock ones. If you are considering the change (and I highly recommend it) give Crow a call. Had the new belts in less than 2 weeks. Just be sure to include the 3-bar sliders for mounting as they do not come with sewn loops. I'm sure you SW folks could provide the necessary measurements to have a set made to fit as well, just be sure to be clear on how much extra length the webbing needs to be for the 3-bar slide attachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hi Matt. Nice looking belts. Not sure what you mean regarding "3 bar" and "extra 3 bar" Is this the adjustment fixture in the picture which the belts run thru? Is an extra set of these required where the belts are anchored? Wondering why Fred can't sew loops in the belts since these are custom made by him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The "3 bar" is a mechanical to make the loop in the belt. It allows installing and removing the belts without unbolting the mounting bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT_MATT Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hey Dick, The 3 bar sliders seem to be the more accepted standard attachment method for racing applications (and I believe a much stronger connection vs sewn loops). I deferred to the racing folks since they are much more abusive to belts than our application... They could have sewn in loops but, that limits any further adjustment. The sliders look like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The 50 cent grip tape solution I posted in another thread seems to be working pretty well. I'm sure a racing harness would be better, but the grip tape works well and only takes ten minutes to apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Andy, weren't you going to post pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Andy, weren't you going to post pictures? Yes. I am lame. I'm hoping to be at the hangar this afternoon, will try to remember this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Andy, you aren't old enough to have Oldtimer's disease (like I do). Mat & Jim, thanks - now I now what a 3 bar link is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Here you go. As I mentioned, it's simplicity itself, and holds things much better. Maybe not 100%, but good enough it doesn't bother me anymore. Just wrap the tape all around the center bar and the trailing bar (the side where you pull tighter), that's where the tension is set and where you need additional friction. If it's still not enough, just add more tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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