procharger Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 What is the best way to make a minor adjustment on the trim tab? I need a little more adjustment to get the nose down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 2 hours ago, procharger said: What is the best way to make a minor adjustment on the trim tab? I need a little more adjustment to get the nose down? If your trim needs change consider why. If its always been like that then go ahead. I got more nose down so that I could glide at idle at 55kts and there are now times when I run out of nose up trim. All in all I like it like this much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I agree with ED. If it has always been good and it isn't now then what has changed or what maint. has changed it. If you need to adjust the tab then use the two rods that connect it on the back under surface. Turn the rod ends just 1 turn each then test fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 This adjustment was done recently on my friend's CTLS. He never has been able to trim for nose down attitude while under low power for landing. His CTLS needed slight forward pressure on the stick. Adjustment is easier to do on the CTLS than the CTSW because the two trim rods are exposed and the rod ends are easy to get to to adjust. The CTSW rods run inside the elevator and the rod ends are not easy to get to. The CTLS which was adjusted now has good ability to be trimmed for cruise and for the desired speed for landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted September 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I do have a CTSW I had put new tape on tab and it changed the way the plane reacts to trim wheel setting slightly, its always been close to running out of trim to get nose down. How do I get to the rear rod end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 It has been a while, but the quickest way will likely be to remove the rods at the front end and make the adjustments. Like Roger said you will have to adjust both rods. If the adjustment needs to be at the rear end of the rods, to me it would be easier to take the stabilator off and lay it upside down to make the adjustment. That way the trim tab can move full deflection giving access to the connection while it is on its back. This would also be a good time to check the torque of the pivot point for the stabilator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I had to adjust mine, the airplane could not be trimmed to an airspeed of less than about 63kt, so I had to use a lot of back pressure to hold my preferred landing speeds of 50-55 kt on final. I now get about 55kt. I still need just slight backpressure on final, but I actually like how that feels. It's a pain to get to the the rods to adjust them, but you don't have to get to the ends inside the stab, just the ones exposed under the rudder. Getting wrenches in there to loosen bolts will test your patience, but in the end it's not that hard. It doesn't take much to make an adjustment, I think I did one full turn on each rod end and that changed my minimum trimmed speed by about 7-8kt. If you are just making a tweak I'd start with a half turn on both rods. Always adjust them the same amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: I had to adjust mine, the airplane could not be trimmed to an airspeed of less than about 63kt, so I had to use a lot of back pressure to hold my preferred landing speeds of 50-55 kt on final. I now get about 55kt. Forward pressure is needed to fly at 50-55kts when trimmed for 63kts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I'm a little confused by people talking about trimming to "get the nose down" for landing. When landing with power off I give the airplane full aft trim, which picks the nose UP. I guess if you are landing with power you might need a little nose down trim, but certainly if you can trim for level flight at 110+ knots you have plenty to nose it over for landing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said: Forward pressure is needed to fly at 50-55kts when trimmed for 63kts. If I'm trimmed for 63 knots hands off, and I want to go slower, I have to either reduce power, and/or pull back on the stick, not push forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, FlyingMonkey said: If I'm trimmed for 63 knots hands off, and I want to go slower, I have to either reduce power, and/or pull back on the stick, not push forward. brainfart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, Ed Cesnalis said: brainfart Happens to the best of us! I thought I was going insane for a minute there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: I'm a little confused by people talking about trimming to "get the nose down" for landing. When landing with power off I give the airplane full aft trim, which picks the nose UP. I guess if you are landing with power you might need a little nose down trim, but certainly if you can trim for level flight at 110+ knots you have plenty to nose it over for landing... I land without power at full nose down trim and that's usually 55kts. Recently at I got 60 kts and had to trim up for full forward a small amount. Full aft trim for a power off landing would be stall for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, Ed Cesnalis said: I'm a little confused by people talking about trimming to "get the nose down" for landing. When landing with power off I give the airplane full aft trim, which picks the nose UP. I guess if you are landing with power you might need a little nose down trim, but certainly if you can trim for level flight at 110+ knots you have plenty to nose it over for landing... This creates a discrepency I can't get my head around. I have heard to you refer to your landing trim as backwards from mine before but never thought it was. Is this just the difference between 30 and 15 ? I use 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, Ed Cesnalis said: I land without power at full nose down trim and that's usually 55kts. Recently at I got 60 kts and had to trim up for full forward a small amount. Full aft trim for a power off landing would be stall for me. Our planes must be rigged very differently. Abeam the numbers at 70-80kt, I pull power to idle and go to 15° flaps. I then roll the trim aft until the trim peg is at the full rear position. That gives me about 55kt speed once I'm fully slowed down. I maintain that with slight backpressure to landing. If I use 30° flaps I basically just push the nose over to get to 50ish knots. I usually do that on turning to final. I have not paid attention to whether I am fighting any stick pressure in that config, but if so it can't be much because I don't notice it. I'm full aft trim from abeam the numbers to touchdown in all flap configurations. That's how I was taught in another CTSW, and it works the same in mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Abeam the numbers I go to idle and 15 for a few seconds then at 62kts I select 30 and I the same time I put my nose way down till my drooped wing tips are level. I then trim the pressure off which takes up all of my nose down. I can't see how I'm full nose down for 55kts and Andy's full nose up and yet our trim works for cruise in both planes??????????????? The only answer I can see is Andy must use 15 where I use 30 and the big pitch change I make is the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ed Cesnalis said: This creates a discrepency I can't get my head around. I have heard to you refer to your landing trim as backwards from mine before but never thought it was. Is this just the difference between 30 and 15 ? I use 30. Read my last post...no, I use full aft trim in all flaps settings. Something is surely odd somewhere here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, FlyingMonkey said: Our planes must be rigged very differently. Abeam the numbers at 70-80kt, I pull power to idle and go to 15° flaps. I then roll the trim aft until the trim peg is at the full rear position. That gives me about 55kt speed once I'm fully slowed down I just posted this must be it. I only stay at 15 for a few seconds and never notice a need to trim that, but at 62kts and 30 there is a lot of pressure and full nose down is the trim setting for that at idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Ed Cesnalis said: Abeam the numbers I go to idle and 15 for a few seconds then at 62kts I select 30 and I the same time I put my nose way down till my drooped wing tips are level. I then trim the pressure off which takes up all of my nose down. I can't see how I'm full nose down for 55kts and Andy's full nose up and yet our trim works for cruise in both planes??????????????? The only answer I can see is Andy must use 15 where I use 30 and the big pitch change I make is the difference. I don't get it either! By nose down do you mean the silver peg is fully to the rear, or fully forward? It might just be a terminology gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, Ed Cesnalis said: I just posted this must be it. I only stay at 15 for a few seconds and never notice a need to trim that, but at 62kts and 30 there is a lot of pressure and full nose down is the trim setting for that at idle. For sure, 62kt at 30 there is a LOT of pressure. I have to fight that, but I never get that fast at 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: If I use 30° flaps I basically just push the nose over to get to 50ish knots. This pushing the nose over needs the nose down trim to relive pressure, I use this from just past abeam the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Just now, Ed Cesnalis said: This pushing the nose over needs the nose down trim to relive pressure, I use this from just past abeam the numbers So by the time you are on short final at touchdown speed, if you don't re-trim from your 62kt/30° setting, I suspect you need a good amount of back stick pressure into the landing. If so, then we are similar. We just make different choices on when & where to trim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: I have to fight that, but I never get that fast at 30. Seems odd to me. What is intuitive to me is to deploy 30 at 62kt and use that to slow down even while pitched down. I'm never that slow at 15. Backpressure on short final seems just as non-intuitive. Confirmed correct speed with no pressure means I can use a neutral stick and maintain speed. Backpressure means I have to still watch the speed and that trim isn't holding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: So by the time you are on short final at touchdown speed, if you don't re-trim from your 62kt/30° setting, I suspect you need a good amount of back stick pressure into the landing. If so, then we are similar. We just make different choices on when & where to trim. I'm trimmed and on speed while still on down wind, I just coast in from there with no changes till roundout/flare or whatever you call what I do. It makes those 3 legs of the approach as simple as possible and the biggest downside is when I pitch for 30 my stuff falls off the passenger seat forward onto the floor when I'm solo Sometimes my headset falls off forward as well. Its a really steep deck angle, hence the farther limit on the nose down trim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 minute ago, FlyingMonkey said: So by the time you are on short final at touchdown speed, if you don't re-trim from your 62kt/30° setting, I suspect you need a good amount of back stick pressure into the landing. If so, then we are similar. We just make different choices on when & where to trim. I'm trimmed and on speed while still on down wind, I just coast in from there with no changes till roundout/flare or whatever you call what I do. It makes those 3 legs of the approach as simple as possible and the biggest downside is when I pitch for 30 my stuff falls off the passenger seat forward onto the floor when I'm solo. Its a really steep deck angle, hence the farther limit on the nose down trim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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