FlyingMonkey Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 I think I accidentally deleted the ignition topic I created. Can one of the mods restore it? Sorry folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, FlyingMonkey said: I think I accidentally deleted the ignition topic I created. Can one of the mods restore it? Sorry folks! You created a Monster! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 I will repeat my last question here: Has anybody had a failed "soft start" module, or are all the failures confined to the older modules? In other words, is replacing modules a "one and done" item, or can we expect to drop $2k to keep the airplane starting every few years? If that latter, this *significantly* increases the per hour operating cost of a 912-powered airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 I had a customers soft start module fail on his flight home from maintenance, but it was no fault of the module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Tom Baker said: I had a customers soft start module fail on his flight home from maintenance, but it was no fault of the module. I don’t understand this statement Tom! It failed but it wasn’t the fault of the module!! Can you elaborate Thank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Yeah, explain please! Improper maintenance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, Buckaroo said: I don’t understand this statement Tom! It failed but it wasn’t the fault of the module!! Can you elaborate Thank! I knew that would raise an eyebrow. Let me first start by saying I did not do the hose change on this airplane. A piece of hose debris made it to the inlet of one carb blocking the fuel to that carb. Suffice to say that the engine doesn't run smoothly on 2 cylinders. There was also an improperly secured free end on a Band-it clamp. Due to the extreme vibration and the improperly installed Band-it one bundle of leads coming from the module were severed. After the incident I replaced the 1/4" hose from the fuel pump the divider. I cut the old hose open and there were chunks of the inner hose liner that were loose. I think there was a bad batch of hose back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 I haven't heard of any of the newer soft starts failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Well that’s good. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Well Stanley, you've really done it this time! Who will admit they're old enough to know where this quote came from?? Ahhh, but I digress. I sent in a request to Carmo, the module rebuilding company, to send me information on their rebuilding of the Rotax module. ZZ Top posted Carmo's reply to my request here on this thread. I have no idea why this reply ended up on the forum instead of in the form of a emailed reply back to my email address. If ZZ Top is there, I'm wondering if he/she might be the Carmo contact or a person who is associated with Carmo? If you could please clear this up it would help me keep my contacts straight. Also, the post by ZZ Top provided information on the cost and timing of Carmo's module repair. Update: Andy, I happened to have bookmarked this thread before you deleted it and the following link, at least on my computer, shows the old thread thru page 3. I was hoping that it would show ZZ Tops entry but it does not: http://ctflier.com/topic/4523-912-ignition-modules/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Dick, I think his name might just happen to be Richard as well. I think he also sent a request, and posted his reply. He said he had a couple airplanes including a CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 Tom, thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 I just got my replacement modules from Lockwood yesterday evening. They also make a "Y" cable for enabling the soft start functionality, which I purchased. The instructions are a bit fuzzy, but it looks like you just pop out the rubber blocks on the unused pin on the pin block connectors, and slot one of the (I think female) pin connectors into each of the blocks, then connect the other end of the "Y" to the starter solenoid. Seems pretty simple, and it looks like if it fails or you get it wrong somehow you just lose soft start and the modules will still start the engine. Hopefully I will be back to flying by the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 I’ve heard that in flight if you lose one of the electronic ignition modules the other will continue you to a close airport with just a slight rpm loss like you get during mag check. Then a person with experience with Rotax said if you lose a ignition during flight the engine will shake so bad you’ll have to land ASAP. He said only half the engine will run. Which is true? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 The first is true. Just like any airplane with dual ignition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, FlyingMonkey said: The first is true. Just like any airplane with dual ignition. Thanks! I’m wondering about my local Rotax experts knowledge base! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 When you do a mag check did the engine shake itself to death? Did you not turn one ignition off? Find a new expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, Roger Lee said: When you do a mag check did the engine shake itself to death? Did you not turn one ignition off? Find a new expert. I know it’s kinda weird here sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 I got my replacement modules installed yesterday. The hardest part is getting the new soft start wires into the connectors; Rotax only gives you about an inch and a half of wire between the ignition coils and the connectors, so you have to be a contortionist with your fingers to get them inserted. Once it was all back together, I reconnected the negative battery terminal and attempted a start. It fired on the second blade, ran normally. I might have been able to tell a slight difference on startup with the soft start feature enabled, but it's pretty subtle. I let the engine get to takeoff temp, then did a 4000rpm runup and did a mag check at 3200rpm. Everything acted perfectly normal. I didn't have time to fly yesterday, but I should be able to Sunday if the weather holds. Everything seems great at this point. Except my wallet, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 The only thing I really notice is the slightly lower engine RPM on start up. Not so much for the first start of the day when you use the choke, but subsequent hot starts. You might need to bump the throttle up a little if you started at idle before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHeal Posted August 26, 2018 Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 You should be able to detect a noticeable slight RPM increase (a hundred or two RPMs?) a few seconds after start-up as the Soft-Start system transitions from start-up timing to normal operational timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 26, 2018 Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 The standard modules started at 4 BTDC and then after the engine hit 850 rpm it switched to 26 BTDC. So the engine was starting on a piston up stroke. The soft starts modules start at 3 ATDC for 5-6 seconds and then switch to 26 BTDC. Now the engine starts on the downward stroke of the piston and not the up stroke. The engine may feel a tad rough in those first few seconds, but then you should hear it smooth right out and pick up those few extra rpms. What's unique about the Rotax plug firing is it fires on every stroke of the piston while most 4 strokes only fire on every other stroke. This adds a bit of safety and redundancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted August 26, 2018 Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 It also is driven by simplicity. The ignition system would need to be more complicated to read the crankshaft position AND skip every other rotation... Most CDIs waste a spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 First flight today. Engine performed the same as always, and starting was *instant*. I don’t think the prop went 90 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Koerner Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 I wish my ignition would die so I could justify soft start modules. Mike Koerner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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