corvette33 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Posted March 11, 2011 I understand there is a mandatory replacement of hoses and rubber parts on the Rotax at 5 years? As a new owner can you bring me up to speed. Also what is the deal on the "soft start" module? Is it necessary? I understand both Rotax and Bully Hawk make one. Which would you reccomend and why? Thanks
Jacques Posted March 11, 2011 Report Posted March 11, 2011 here is the info http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/182-rotax-magnetic-plug-check-and-5-year-rubber-parts/ Rotax doesn't make a Soft Start.. They came out with the ''Advanced Start'' incorporated in the new engines. If you want to add on..you should [must ] go with the Soft Start from Bully Hawk or the Rotax dealers
Runtoeat Posted March 12, 2011 Report Posted March 12, 2011 Hi Corvette33, I'm not sure if you have a new CT or purchased a used one? Your CT should have a library of all Rotax and Flight Design service bulletins that pertain to your aircraft. If your CT was purchased used, this list could be extensive, especially in regards to Rotax bulletins. You may already have this but it is best to have a library for all Flight Design and Rotax service bulletins pertaining to your specific aircraft. FD and Rotax has summaries and detailed documents of all service bulletins on their websites. As for this hose replacement, there is a great deal of information on this forum and the specific Rotax service bulletin for this is found here. Get out your wallet when it's time for you to do the hose replacement!
corvette33 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Posted March 12, 2011 Thanks for the replies. I recently purchased a 2007 CTSW, but have not yet taken delivery from the dealer. If this will need the hose replacement done next year I guess I might as well have it done before taking delivery. Does anyone know what an approximate price might be to have this completed? Also, I understand that the Bully Hawk soft start is available. Will I need a LOA to have it installed on My CT? From the videos I have seen on this product it would seem to be beneficial. Anyone have any experience with this product?
FastEddieB Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 I had violent kick-back issues with my ROTAX-powered Sky Arrow. The Soft Start module definitely helped - a very worthwhile addition IMHO. Some description and photos here: http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/374-bullyhawk-soft-start-install-rotax-questions/page__p__2189__hl__%2Bsoft+%2Bstart__fromsearch__1#entry2189
Jim Posted March 13, 2011 Report Posted March 13, 2011 I had violent kick-back issues with my ROTAX-powered Sky Arrow. The Soft Start module definitely helped - a very worthwhile addition IMHO. Some description and photos here: http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/374-bullyhawk-soft-start-install-rotax-questions/page__p__2189__hl__%2Bsoft+%2Bstart__fromsearch__1#entry2189 Any idea why some planes have it and some don't? I probably have 500 starts on my CT and don't remember it ever being a problem.
Jim Posted March 14, 2011 Report Posted March 14, 2011 I guess that would explain it. I've probably never started it below about 30F and if the plane sits longer than 2 weeks I put the charger on the battery.
FastEddieB Posted March 14, 2011 Report Posted March 14, 2011 Any idea why some planes have it and some don't? I probably have 500 starts on my CT and don't remember it ever being a problem. Not sure. The Bullyhawk site gives an extensive list of things to look for. A fully charged battery certainly helps. My Sky Arrow has a pretty long run from the battery to the starter (battery in the nose, high-mounted engine), and that may cause some voltage drop. It also seems like once you've had it kick back so hard so many times, something starts to loosen up in the starter sprague clutch (I think), and that makes the problem even worse, in a vicious cycle. On a very cold day (less that 30ºF) it still takes about 3 tries to get running, still trying to find the perfect combination of "choke" and throttle position. But its worlds less violent than it was before, and hot starts are as "soft" as one could ever wish for.
Jacques Posted March 14, 2011 Report Posted March 14, 2011 yep..the cold makes the difference...even with the lower compression 80 hp and a full charged battery. pre-warming the engine is the way to go.
Jim Posted March 14, 2011 Report Posted March 14, 2011 I'd put money on the length of the battery cables. On a CT they are about 8".
Runtoeat Posted March 14, 2011 Report Posted March 14, 2011 Some thoughts on things I've found while starting my CTSW. The starter on all of our CT's has a sprage clutch. This allows overun of the engine flywheel gear to the starter gear when the engine starts, unlike automotive systems. This means that one can keep the starter engaged even after the engine "catches" and starts. I hold my ignition key on "start" until I am sure that the engine is fully started and running. This means holding on "start" for just one or more seconds longer after the engine catches. I have found that the throttle cannot be opened, even a small amount, or the engine will not start. As for my choke, I have found the "sweet spots" (two positions) where the engine will start in "partial" cold and where it will start in "full" cold. My choke "overchokes" in the "full on" position if I start the engine after the plane has been hangared and is partially cold. I must use "full on" choke if I fly to a location where the plane sits exposed to the cold for a period of time. I have put paint marks for the two positions for the choke. To find the sweet spot for partial cold, increase and decrease the choke immediately after starting and listen to the engine. I don't seem to have any kickbacks or issues during starting using this procedure. Note: I edited this reply after realizing that the subject for this thread is "5 year rubber hose replacement". Perhaps comments pertaining to "engine starting" might be moved to a more appropriate" thread?
Jim Posted March 14, 2011 Report Posted March 14, 2011 Great advice about the sprage clutch. I suspected it had one based on the sounds it makes, but it's good to know for sure that it's safe to keep spinning the starter for a second or two if it's sluggish kicking over.
westcoastoz Posted May 1, 2011 Report Posted May 1, 2011 My 912 is due next month for the 5 year rubber hose & parts replacement. Does anyone know if any of the U.S. Rotax suppliers (CPS maybe?)have made up a kit with all the required bits and pieces to do this job? It would sure make it easier than searching locally for all the different size hoses needed to complete the task. I expect it will be cheaper to source the parts from the USA rather than here in Australia thanks to the current strength of the $AUD and I might as well buy an Oetiker kit while I am at it. Any tips & information from someone who has already done the job would also be appreciated so I can pass it on to my mechanic. Thanks, Dave
westcoastoz Posted May 1, 2011 Report Posted May 1, 2011 Roger....thank you so much for taking the time to provide that information. You have made the process for me and I expect many others on this forum so much easier. Regards, Dave
Runtoeat Posted June 7, 2011 Report Posted June 7, 2011 Hi Roger. I'm getting ready to order that parts I need to change the rubber on my 2006 CTSW. Is the kit that CPS now sells pretty much complete after allowing a few weeks for you and CPS to figure out all that is needed? I don't see any reference to the fuel hoses that we are supposed to change which run from the wings down thru the pillars to the cowl. Are these fuel lines extra and need to be ordered separate from the CPS kit? Also, are all of those oetiker clamps you show really needed, in addition to the standard clamp kit you show? Thanks.
Tad Olmsted Posted June 7, 2011 Report Posted June 7, 2011 Hi Roger. I'm getting ready to order that parts I need to change the rubber on my 2006 CTSW. Is the kit that CPS now sells pretty much complete after allowing a few weeks for you and CPS to figure out all that is needed? I don't see any reference to the fuel hoses that we are supposed to change which run from the wings down thru the pillars to the cowl. Are these fuel lines extra and need to be ordered separate from the CPS kit? Also, are all of those oetiker clamps you show really needed, in addition to the standard clamp kit you show? Thanks. Dick, Those lines are airframe items and not recognized by Rotax. I always change them and the lines going from there into the instrument panel where the fuel shut off is located as well. I always change the two 6 inch fuel lines at the wing root during the 2 year wing inspection. The otiker clamps are great and recommended for the line attachment and the band clamp goes on the fire sleave to finish it all off. I used to hate those clamps until I figured out a very easy way of removing them. I use a long pair of Snap on dikes that have all the leverage and cut them like butter. Tip of the day When making up your lines with the fire sleave on it, allow a little extra fire sleave when a line has to be bent ( like the one to the oil pump). If not it will be too short. Also a trick for getting the fire sleave on is to install a bolt in the rubber line and then blow shop air into the fire sleave and walk it on with no sweat. And finally make sure the band clamps are not too tight, I had one restrict the fuel psi, but only did it at WOT.
Runtoeat Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Tad and Roger, thanks for the info. You guys are doing us a big favor to give up some of your tips that you've developed over the years working on Rotax engines. Tad, I'll look for the Snap-on dike cutter you mention. In regards to blowing air in the fire sleeve...I assume you put the bolt into the fuel line to prevent any foreign matter from getting into it when you blow air into the fire sleeve? Good point about leaving the fire sleeve a little long. Roger, I heard that there has been discussion on your Rotax forum regarding what hoses really need to be replaced. Reading the comments from those of you who have done the hose replacement, it appears that after 5 or 6 years, it is a good idea to replace all of the hoses anyway. Thanks for the tip regarding proper hose clamp to use on the wing root fuel lines. I picked up some of the clamps that have the stamped screw threads and not the cut threads and will use these. Have you or Tad found a clear hose that won't turn yellow to use for the fuel sight level hoses?
Tad Olmsted Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Lockwood sells a bright Yellow line i have been using. Seems good so far. Yes,an allen head bolt in the fuel line
Runtoeat Posted June 23, 2011 Report Posted June 23, 2011 Roger, I went to the website you gave for the oetiker pliers and clamps. Your post says to order extra clamps in addition to the clamps that are in the kit and you list the following sizes: 13.3mm, 14.5, 17, 18.5, 21, 25.6 and 33.1. Would it be possible to provide a ballpark estimate of the total number of clamps of the various sizes needed to do this job? I don't mind have some extra clamps left over to do other jobs with, just trying to not have too many. Response from Jeremy or others who've also done the replacement would be welcome too.
Adam Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 When does the 5 year clock START? Date of engine manufacture, date of airplane manufacture, date placed in service? I am a December 2006 build date (serial number). Airworthiness certificate issued April 2007, plane first put in service May of 2007. Am I due at the end of 2011? April 2012? May 2012?
Tad Olmsted Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 When does the 5 year clock START? Date of engine manufacture, date of airplane manufacture, date placed in service? I am a December 2006 build date (serial number). Airworthiness certificate issued April 2007, plane first put in service May of 2007. Am I due at the end of 2011? April 2012? May 2012? Dec 2011
Adam Posted July 4, 2011 Report Posted July 4, 2011 Thanks Tad! (Guess I won't be delaying until next May's annual... LOL)
Jim Meade Posted July 19, 2011 Report Posted July 19, 2011 When does the clock start ticking on the 5 years, and when does it stop? If I had a 2007 that was registered in July 2007, must the 5 year be done by the end of 2012 or by the end of July 2012 or by the end of the first annual in 2012 or when? What is the specific rule on when the clock starts ticking? I've heard various guesses, estimates, swags and so forth, but I haven't had anyone cite a specific reg/doc yet. Thanks.
westcoastoz Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Just an FYI on the Rotax rubber replacement, In the Rotax manual under time limits for parts where the rubber replacement items are listed to be replaced and among this is the rubber engine mounts. Even those these may be supplied by FD these are a mandatory replacement.You must remove the engine to do this and there is not way around it. If you try to do the rubber replacement with the engine on then this can not be performed and this would mean the rubber replacement was not finished and not complied with. These 16 rubber engine isolators get smashed under the weight of the engine and get deformed and crack. Make sure you address these rubber engine isolators. Roger....this was discussed here http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/207-5-year-mandatory-hose-replacement-has-begun/ and unless there has been an amendment to the Rotax manual, my understanding is that the rubber engine mounts are a "replacement on condition" item. (05-10-00 Page 8 in conjunction with 12-20-00 3.1 Page 9) I agree however with your comments where you say that with the engine removed, then it makes perfect sense to replace the rubber engine mounts however I know that many 5 year rubber replacement schedules have been done on the Rotax 912 without removing the engine. Quite a few Rotax 912 engines are mounted in airplanes 5 years old but with very low hours and the engine mounts are in very good condition. If you have a later amendment or information to the contrary, then I stand corrected, however I would be interested to see it. Regards, Dave
Jim Meade Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 I was talking with Dean from Lockwood today at Oshkosh and he said they are not mandatory for replacement. It is good to separate what is recommended from what is required so we all know the specifics of compliance.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.