FlyingMonkey Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Has anybody replaced their fuel and oil lines with stainless braided lines? There are a lot of options out there, and you can get PTFE (teflon) inner linings that should last 8-10 years easily and are rated to 1000psi. The problem I see is that you'd have to replace all those barbed fittings with something compatible with these type fittings: It would get pretty expensive since 6ft of this hose is about $40, and the fittings are $14-25 each. But in the end you'd have a really nice and bullet-proof hose setup that will last a *really* long time. There are some areas where I don't know if you could practically make this work, like the barb fitting fuel lines that come through the A-pillars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 A lot Cheaper, easier and better to leave things in this particular case as is. You could dump thousands into a plane and it won't be any more valuable when it comes time to sell and many buyers may shy away from big changes vs stock setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 31 minutes ago, Roger Lee said: A lot Cheaper, easier and better to leave things in this particular case as is. You could dump thousands into a plane and it won't be any more valuable when it comes time to sell and many buyers may shy away from big changes vs stock setups. That makes some sense. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 I just changed all airframe fuel lines to AN fittings, including bulkhead thru fittings. AE701 stainless hoses were considered but questions of ethanol compatibility remain plus no stock nationwide. I used AN push fittings with Gates injection hose. Cost was about a few hundred but much better system, especially the use of bulkhead fittings thru the firewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Could Aircraft Specialty type of Teflon hoses/37’ fittings and FD/ROTAX work up a firewall foreword package and MRA for SLSA owners? It would be an improvement in safety alone (less risk for substandard hose replacements) and superior hoses. checkout what they did for ELSA RV12’s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Madhatter said: I just changed all airframe fuel lines to AN fittings, including bulkhead thru fittings. AE701 stainless hoses were considered but questions of ethanol compatibility remain plus no stock nationwide. I used AN push fittings with Gates injection hose. Cost was about a few hundred but much better system, especially the use of bulkhead fittings thru the firewall. You you have some links, specs, pics for that? Sounds interesting to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted October 23, 2022 Report Share Posted October 23, 2022 Teflon for cabin is not worth doing, fittings are very expensive and there are some compatibility issues with fuel incoming lines at firewall. I did it to eliminate the firewall tubes and barb fittings. I also eliminated the small fuel filter which serves no purpose for me. I also installed "Steves Gascolator" on firewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 7 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said: You you have some links, specs, pics for that? Sounds interesting to me. Aircraftspecialty.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Gee Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, airhound said: Aircraftspecialty.com Had them do up fuel hoses for me a few months ago. I changed a few things around from stock, but the hoses look good and function as expected. The integrated firesleeve hoses look great, but I don't know if it is worth the extra $$$ for the integrated firesleeving. Big benefit is don't have to worry about them next hose change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 Aircraft Specialty does AN teflon hoses for engine and are great. I eliminated all banjo and barb fittings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 Are you SLSA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 3 hours ago, airhound said: Are you SLSA? He's ELSA. Depending on how your newer operating limitations are worded you may no be able to make changes without a FSDO's sign off. There are two clauses you need to watch out for that some found out too late. The Dar's must put certain language in, but have leeway with some other items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted October 24, 2022 Report Share Posted October 24, 2022 My DAR said the format for my operating limitations are pretty much standard now for my type of aircraft. My limitations require notification only for structural, aerodynamic, flight control changes, different non standard engines for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Flight Design is willing to MRA teflon hoses and milspec fittings like what mathatter posted, so S-LSA people could get those too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Would that be through FD in Tulsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Send to tulsa. Arian and Tom are still processing MRAs, but it goes theough tulsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 12 hours ago, Madhatter said: My limitations require notification only for structural, aerodynamic, flight control changes, different non standard engines for the most part Similar discussion with my local FSDO, I think one would have to be doing something either very stupid, or blatantly violating reg's, before they would take issue. When I changed N number I didn't fly it down, but drove to meet FSDO rep, as the reg's are clear once new cert is issued the plane is grounded until N numbers swapped. Guy was surprised I drove in, actually said he's disappointed he couldn't see the bird, and would have been no problem with flying it on that trip. I've had three interactions with DAR's / FSDO over past three years, and these have been some of the best guys to work with. Decent and reasonable all around. I'd suspect a lot has to do with 1) up front communications, 2) being on time for appointment, 3) knowing about what you're seeking to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Looking at the Rotax parts list it looks like you will have an extra $800 plus for an oil tank to be able convert the oil lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Why waste all your money when regular rubber hose has been working for many decades and on millions of engines around the world and is used by the huge majority? It's 10-50 times cheaper and eventually you may need to replace the other hose too. I think money could be better spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS Flightlines Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 It is not required to purchase a new oil tank. Aircraft Specialty Flightlines can run either AN fittings or Metric fittings in the same hose, so an oil tank change is not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 Andy, I've replaced most of my fuel lines with teflon hose and used the braided steel lines on the Rans I built. I don't recall any problems connecting to the oil tank. Each of us has his own assessment of the value of such a change and whether it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 I looked hard at going to teflon or stainless braided on oil lines, it's not worth it. Oil lines are very easy to make. Fuel lines however are different, getting rid of barb and banjo fittings and going to all AN are a good thing for me. I also had the old stainless carb lines which were a pita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 55 minutes ago, Roger Lee said: Why waste all your money when regular rubber hose has been working for many decades and on millions of engines around the world and is used by the huge majority? It's 10-50 times cheaper and eventually you may need to replace the other hose too. I think money could be better spent. Roger No certified aircraft use the rubber hoses we use on lsa or experimental. Even low pressure approved rubber hoses are not used. I don't even use them on j3's or Aeronca's. We don't use barb fittings for fuel, ever, maybe on a Wright Flyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS Flightlines Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Madhatter said: Roger No certified aircraft use the rubber hoses we use on lsa or experimental. Even low pressure approved rubber hoses are not used. I don't even use them on j3's or Aeronca's. We don't use barb fittings for fuel, ever, maybe on a Wright Flyer There is also a significant time/maintenance cost to replace all the rubber hoses with new rubber hoses. Conductive teflon hoses are more expensive than rubber, but are surprisingly affordable when you look at the long term costs of replacing the rubber hoses every 5 years. Rotax has swapped to Teflon on all their 912 engines, and there is very good reason for it. In the end, each owner needs to decide the value proposition for both oil and fuel lines. If you want to explore teflon, please feel free to contact us. (aircraftspecialty@gmail.com) We have done hundreds of Rotax engines, and can help make it easy and affordable. With the 912 we can either do an AN conversion, or we can follow the stock banjo configuration and utilize Conductive teflon hose. Either way, the fittings we use are all stainless with stainless collars. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS Flightlines Posted October 25, 2022 Report Share Posted October 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jim Meade said: Andy, I've replaced most of my fuel lines with teflon hose and used the braided steel lines on the Rans I built. I don't recall any problems connecting to the oil tank. Each of us has his own assessment of the value of such a change and whether it's worth it. Rotax has two different oil tanks. One utilizes a metric ball fitting and one utilizes AN fittings. We designed hose ends that work for either style oil tank to eliminate the cost of needing to swap oil tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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