Light Sport Repairman Inspection course

[Bill3558]

I’m fed up with having problems with my annual inspections so I’m considering going ELSA and taking the LS RI class so I can do my own.
It’s just a 2 day class and as I understand it that will allow me to do my own inspections to my aircraft. Including the Rotax engine. 
Let me ask the braintrust on this forum a few questions if I may. 
If I go experimental, does that mean I can go “ on condition “ for the 5 year rubber hoses?  How about periodic “wing pulls” that FD requires. 
Can I exceed parachute and rocket intervals by just placarding “ in op”?
Does anyone know of a CT specific inspection class?

Appreciate any advice.  This is all new to me. 

 

 

[Madhatter]

2 day course is not going to qualify anyone to do inspections with any kind of acceptable standards. The 120 hr course is marginal at best for those with no previous mechanical experience. Hoses used on a CT are not like certified and will deteriorate sooner. I've never been an advocate of 2 year wing pulls except for sight tube replacement and even that can be done without pulling the wings. Wing pulls should be based on hours flown or load cycles. There is nothing to corrode and each pull causes some wear. I couldn't comment on parachute but it's getting much more expensive and shipping times are long. ELSA will let anyone work on the aircraft and pretty much do what they want which is not always a good thing. Any additional education is a good thing but be cognizant of any limitations,  it will pay off in the long run if you stick with it.

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

I see no major negatives to going E-LSA, same insurance cost, aircraft values don't drop, there are a very small number of buyers who will shy away - but also another group that is seeking conversion already complete, so it's a wash all around.

There are good manuals and forum support.  I'm three years into my E-LSA conversion and have done everything myself, and as Madhatter mentioned the wing pull is the only thing I've not maintained to schedule.  I'm capable of doing it but share same view it's better timed to hours and risk management, v/s by the book.

If you feel like you're able to do oil changes, compression tests, slipper clutch torque check, and the other basic trinket things - go for it.  You always have the option to fly the plane to a qualified mechanic for stuff you're not wanting to do yourself, say the hose change.

The 2-day course will not teach you anything of practical mechanical skill, it's basic classroom reg's and such, but get's you the rating.

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

56 minutes ago, Bill3558 said:

If I go experimental, does that mean I can go “ on condition “ for the 5 year rubber hoses?

And yes, you have the option on these sorts of things.  I'm approaching 5 year in another year, not burning ethanol I may opt to push it but have not decided either way yet.  A couple CT owners near me are S-LSA and their mechanic is allowing on condition.  I believe one is at the 7 year mark right now.

[Tom Baker]

What you are allowed to defer may be tied to how the operating limitations are written when you switch to ELSA. That is something to watch closely.

[Bill3558]

Is Rainbow Aviation the only folks that offer this 2 day class?  I cant find another source. Any suggestions appreciated. 

[Anticept]

There is zero reason to do the 2 day course only, it is LSR-I and you can only do this on your own aircraft. There are several tasks in the inspections that are technically maintenance and you'll kick yourself for not doing the 2 week course and just going full LSR-M, even if you don't intend to do much wrenching.

[Tom Baker]

1 hour ago, Anticept said:

There is zero reason to do the 2 day course only, it is LSR-I and you can only do this on your own aircraft. There are several tasks in the inspections that are technically maintenance and you'll kick yourself for not doing the 2 week course and just going full LSR-M, even if you don't intend to do much wrenching.

The inspection class is for doing inspections on experimental light sport aircraft owned by the holder of the certificate only. Seeing that it is experimental anyone can perform maintenance, no credentials required. Oh, and it is three weeks for the LSR-M, plus add a week for Rotax training.

[airhound]

Watch the Carpenter utube about the importance of commenting on MOSAIC NPRM impact on LSRM certificates…sounds like the proposers could, greatly, goon a good thing up as written….even though they admit LS has a very good safety record… 

[airhound]

Might have to go thru the Rainbow Aviation website to find it.

[Anticept]

54 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

The inspection class is for doing inspections on experimental light sport aircraft owned by the holder of the certificate only. Seeing that it is experimental anyone can perform maintenance, no credentials required. Oh, and it is three weeks for the LSR-M, plus add a week for Rotax training.

This got upped to 3 weeks? Last person I knew that went, it was 2 weeks plus a test day.

[ODowneyEng]

As a matter of interest I took the LSRM-A 120 hours course at Blue Ridge Community College in Weyers Cave VA a few years ago. I completed course to work on my own aircraft and found it very educational and useful. I don’t know if it’s still offered. The teachers there are very experienced. I highly recommend the course. 

IMO the course is good for people who know what they are doing. No one is going to be a skilled mechanic in a couple of weeks. How many out there would fly in an airplane serviced by such an individual with 3 weeks training?

[FredG]

I converted my CTsw to E-LSA, took the Rainbow two-day course, and never kicked myself.  It all depends on the mechanical aptitude of the airplane owner and any other formal and informal training they have had and past experience with aircraft systems.     

[ODowneyEng]

47 minutes ago, FredG said:

I converted my CTsw to E-LSA, took the Rainbow two-day course, and never kicked myself.  It all depends on the mechanical aptitude of the airplane owner and any other formal and informal training they have had and past experience with aircraft systems.     

Ah experience and knowing one’s limitations. Most pilot’s have a good familiarity with their aircraft’s systems and recognize their limitations from my observations over the years.

have fun with BRS Rocket link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZjylLe09-pYaXfBeznqo2guXFdccX1WY/view?usp=drivesdk

[ODowneyEng]

Just now, ODowneyEng said:

Ah experience and knowing one’s limitations. Most pilot’s have a good familiarity with their aircraft’s systems and recognize their limitations from my observations over the years.

have fun with BRS Rocket link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZjylLe09-pYaXfBeznqo2guXFdccX1WY/view?usp=drivesdk

There are safer ways for disposal, but this is more fun.

[Anticept]

When I said that, I missed the part where bill said he's going E-LSA

[Tom Baker]

3 hours ago, Anticept said:

This got upped to 3 weeks? Last person I knew that went, it was 2 weeks plus a test day.

15 days. Rainbow does 15 days straight, the place in WV that had a program was 3 weeks with weekends off.

[Anticept]

Got it. There was a lot of people here talking about rainbow aviation so that's who I was referring to. Sorry for being unclear.

[BravoFoxtrot]

3 hours ago, ODowneyEng said:

As a matter of interest I took the LSRM-A 120 hours course at Blue Ridge Community College in Weyers Cave VA a few years ago. I completed course to work on my own aircraft and found it very educational and useful. I don’t know if it’s still offered. The teachers there are very experienced. I highly recommend the course. 

IMO the course is good for people who know what they are doing. No one is going to be a skilled mechanic in a couple of weeks. How many out there would fly in an airplane serviced by such an individual with 3 weeks training?

It is still listed in their catalog for 2023-24. Course is held during the summer:

Light Sport Aircraft Pilot Mechanic <Blue Ridge Community College (brcc.edu)

[tevbax]

15 hours ago, BravoFoxtrot said:

It is still listed in their catalog for 2023-24. Course is held during the summer:

Light Sport Aircraft Pilot Mechanic <Blue Ridge Community College (brcc.edu)

If you are considering BRCC, please shoot me a PM. Another forum member and I just wrapped up their course and can provide some feedback. 

[FlyingMonkey]

Given the MOSAIC changes, I wonder what is going to happen with LSA maintenance requirements.

[Anticept]

One of the things mentioned in MOSAIC was the FAA's dissatisfaction with manufacturers keeping up with their responsibility for maintenance. They are going to require manufacturers to formalize an operational safety program in order to produce light sport aircraft, and if they choose to discontinue these programs, they will be required to turn over design data to the FAA so that if safety of flight issues arise, the FAA itself will begin issuing airworthiness directives for the design. See this citation and the several paragraphs after.

https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-14425/p-415

There will also be a change to LSR-M requirements, requiring testing of LSR-M tasks to use the upcoming mechanic ACS.

I didn't see anything changing what already exists however.

[Madhatter]

Certified aircraft that qualify for LSA will always require an A&P.

[Madhatter]

2 minutes ago, Anticept said:

One of the things mentioned in MOSAIC was the FAA's dissatisfaction with manufacturers keeping up with their responsibility for maintenance. They are going to require manufacturers to formalize an operational safety program in order to produce light sport aircraft, and if they choose to discontinue these programs, they will be required to turn over design data to the FAA so that if safety of flight issues arise, the FAA itself will begin issuing airworthiness directives for the design. See this citation and the several paragraphs after.

https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2023-14425/p-415

Soon you won't see a difference in LSA and certified when it comes to beurocracy with the FAA, it will just cost more $$$.

[Anticept]

59 minutes ago, Madhatter said:

Soon you won't see a difference in LSA and certified when it comes to beurocracy with the FAA, it will just cost more $$$.

Maybe, but at the same time after reporting a few very serious issues that should have had immediate changes to the design or safety directives and basically getting shrugging shoulders on the other end (years later a safety directive FINALLY came out for the one little tiny bolt that controls pitch in flight designs coming loose because they used a nylock instead of a castellated nut and cotter pin), I'm not sure how to feel about a lack of oversight.

Regarding that nylock nut: it had two threads left. I touched it and turned it a little with my fingertip and it came off. An instructor came to me saying that the airplane was suddenly getting kinda sloppy in pitch. It was THIS CLOSE || to a potential accident.

At the same time, it's also silly how we get into that mess because we don't have some of the maintenance flexibility afforded by 43.13. I would have preferred to drop in an AN bolt with a castellated nut and cotter pin and be done with the issue. Rules as written, I can't.

I love 43.13, and it does need a facelift, and i feel like it's one of the most perfect candidates to put through a consensus standard uplift to base modern maintenance and minor repairs/alterations all around.