Blown Tires

[EricB]

I've had my CTLS for less than a year now and in that time have experienced 2 flat tires - the latest requiring tow off the field (see below).  In over 40 years of flying, I've NEVER had a flat tire before.  Not one.  I chalked up the first one to a botched landing but yesterday's was nothing of the sort.  In those 40 years I've certainly botched landings, in many aircraft, under varied conditions.  No flats.  What gives here?

[Anticept]

Might be old tubes. Or cheap tubes. Bad batch.

I've had flats in all kinds of aircraft, but one thing I noticed with matco mains, it's really important to have proper tire pressure, and to keep the tire and tube from twisting. I use a little bit of rubber cement to glue part of the wheel bead to the wheel. Just a little bit, around 1/4 of total circumference.

I think also part of the reason we get flats, especially with matcos, is because flight design specified matco designs for their aircraft which specifically DO NOT use the matco 1" spacer that is normally offered by matco for 6.00-6 tires... the axles for flight designs can't accommodate those spacers. As a result, there is less expansion room for the inner tubes inside the tire, and they like to fold a little more. USE LOTS OF TIRE TALC AND ABSOLUTELY NO BABY POWDER! ITS NOT A SUBSTITUTE!

I only re-use inner tubes if they are in PERFECT condition. No folds, no rubbed off material, no history of issues, valve and valve base in perfect condition.

Too many times tubes have burned me due to re-use if I let any of it slide.

If I have any suggestion for matco, one big one is to make the holes for the valves a little bit bigger to help keep the pressure off the valve stems. I noticed that different tube batches can have different fitments, and if there's a lot of pressure on the valve stem, it's GOING to be a problem and I try to get them exchanged.

Torn valve stem bases are the #1 issue I have with flat tires in the matco wheels, but I've managed to make it almost a non issue by following what I laid out in my post here.

[Tom Baker]

Based on your serial number the airplane would come with Marc wheels and brakes. Do you know it it has been switched to Matco wheels and brakes? What color are the rims?

Make sure you are getting the heavy duty tubes. There are lighter duty tubes, and they are more prone to failure.

Make absolutely sure you keep the tires inflated to 35 PSI for the mains. Don't rely on just a visual look. If the tire is under inflated it is more likely to slip on the rim tearing the tube. The heavy tubes are less likely to tear, but it can still happen.

This is the tube you want for the 4.00x6 tires. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/aeroclassic_06-03559.php

[Jim Meade]

4 hours ago, Anticept said:

If I have any suggestion for matco, one big one is to make the holes for the valves a little bit bigger to help keep the pressure off the valve stems. I noticed that different tube batches can have different fitments, and if there's a lot of pressure on the valve stem, it's GOING to be a problem and I try to get them exchanged

Corey, on ELSA airplanes, have you ever drilled the valve stem hole out a bit (and of course deburred it)?

[Anticept]

No. Never thought about doing it. That said though, I don't see why it would be an issue. Increase the diameter maybe 10%, as well as take a look at the hole inside where the wheel halves meet and slightly enlarge to keep the valve from resting on the shoulder.

[airhound]

Corey,

Have any of your flats left you in a lurch? Have any been difficult to recover from away from home base? What tips might you have?

what equipment do you cart around with you?

Thank You,

Doug in IL

[airhound]

Eric B 

How did the towing go…Did that Dolly and big tug arrangement work smoothly? Any tips on what to watch out for when others come to help?  
Was it at a towered field? Were you prepared to go it alone without assistance? 

Thank You,

Doug in IL

[shiny.ice]

Mike Busch and Colleen Sterling had a bad flat on the way to Oshkosh this year: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/podcasts/podcasts/ask-the-a-and-ps

I've had one flat while flying. I was able to taxi to an on-field mechanic, which was good because I was almost a thousand miles away from home! I carry a tube now, I figure I can scrounge some bar clamps locally but the tube isn't as easy.

 

[Anticept]

2 hours ago, airhound said:

Corey,

Have any of your flats left you in a lurch? Have any been difficult to recover from away from home base? What tips might you have?

what equipment do you cart around with you?

Thank You,

Doug in IL

Never happened to me personally.

6.00x6 tubes are easy to get anywhere, but 4.00x6 are rare as hen's teeth. Carry one of each but if you must carry only one, the 4.00-6 is the one you want.

[EricB]

So many points to cover - let's break it down.

The plane does have the MATCO wheels.  Tube was the Aero Classic 400-6 heavy duty.  While my first failure was right at the valve stem, this one was about 1/2 way up the sidewall of the tube.  There was no corresponding hole or debris on the tire itself.  Contrary to what was said somewhere, Desser tire and Aircraft Spruce seem to have the 400-6 tube available.  

This was at YNG - towered field.  I was able to just make it off the runway onto a taxiway but not out of the runway safe area.  I had a bit of rope in the plane for tie down.  That was affixed to the tie down bolts on the plane and the tug.  The skate was brought from a sympathetic FBO and port authority personnel helped get the plane on the skate and towed back to my hangar (I'm based there).  Tow was accomplished carefully at walking speed - taxiway expansion joints can be a problem.  If on my own I don't know what I would do - this point has me a bit scared.  I have a portable radio which was handy as tower wanted to be able to reach me until help arrived and I wanted to shut down. 

CAUTION, when "lifting" the wing onto the dolly or a jack, it must be done along the wing spar.  The tie down bolt is in the middle of the spar so a good visual.  You can put one other person outbound of that in line but well inside the tip of the wing (24" or so).  2 average guys or one strong one will be able to lift enough.  

The "book" values for tire inflation are 28 so those suggested here are quite a bit above but may be for the tube suggested.  I may be a bit under inflated causing problems and I will be cautious of that in the future.  

Thanks to all so far - let's keep this thread alive for a bit and I'll update my experience.  OH and one last thing.  Last night we went to put on the replacement tube I already had - it leaked from the valve - totally useless.  Tube was OK - valve not so much.  I'll call Desser on Monday as I only bought that thing a few months ago.  

 

[Animosity2k]

@EricB I shot you a message w/ my cell #. I'm hangered about a 20 minute flight from YNG over at KCGF. We should link up sometime. 

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

2 hours ago, EricB said:

I may be a bit under inflated causing problems and I will be cautious of that in the future.  

That is the major driver of flats, but as others have shared tube brand and using proper and plenty of tire talc are equally important.  Surprised nobody has yet to chime in around balancing too, while you're ordering the right tubes and talc, snag premium stick on wheel weights and dial in the balance.

Regarding tube sizes and Spruce, us standard tire birds (non - tundra) run 4.00-6 on the mains and 4.00-4 on the nose, that nose tube is the rare one, perhaps that's what Corey was referring to?

I felt similar to you, 20+ years of Cessna's and never a flat, then early in the CT ownership had a flat.  After learning what is shared here, and checking tire pressure every few months, no more flats.

[airhound]

Eric B

Great AAR! I’ve had a nose wheel go flat and was soooo lucky it was in my hangar. Suspect it was ‘lack of Talc’ related, thank goodness it went slow after landing. The base of the valve stem tore 1/4” at the tube. It took two to fix it, mainly to hold the tail down

My hats off to those who did it all by themselves on a hot/humid unattended airport Taxiway or Runway…makes me want to carry a complete spare nose wheel and sacrifice some useful load. 
 

I asked about it being a towered airport…I’m based at one too, ALN. The local FSDO is holding St Louis area towers to tight reporting standards. A flat tire will generate a MOR (Mandatory Occurrence Report). A guy here had a simple flat while taxiing out and played ping pong with the FISDO for 3 months on the whys-wherefors-and documents. Hope your Tower folks used a little discretion.  We asked our Twr and one guy said radio activity is closely monitored by FISDO and since they are Contractors, they report everything to include: aborting a take off and taxiing back to the ramp, going around when cleared to land, reporting possible bird strikes….so, we all make sure we have the option when in the pattern, then it’s not an issue when deciding to go around. 

Agree, let’s keep the thread going a little more for good ideas when away from home base and the Expected happens.  

[Tom Baker]

The manufacture's approval for the higher tire pressure is listed here on this site. It shows 2.5 bar for both the CTSW and CTLS, but the documents say 35 PSI for the SW and 32 for the LS. I have always used 35 for both with good luck.  

 

[FlyingMonkey]

In ten years of ownership, 9 with Matco wheels (small tires) I have had one flat.  It was 100% due to underinflation and my own damn fault.  I looked at the wheel on preflight and said “that tire looks a little low, but it will probably be fine for one flight”.  The tire rolled off the rim on taxi about a mile from my hangar.  Not a good day.

I use the thicker tubes and check tire pressure every third flight or so, and that has worked for me.  The valve stem holes are tight, but if your tires stay well inflated the stems won’t slip or move and it’s not an issue.  YMMV.

[Tip]

I got 1000 hours on an original set of 6.00-6 Air Trac tires on a LS. I have seen SWs get 50 hours. Put tundras on your plane if you want to eliminate flats.

[Tom Baker]

4 hours ago, Tip said:

I got 1000 hours on an original set of 6.00-6 Air Trac tires on a LS. I have seen SWs get 50 hours. Put tundras on your plane if you want to eliminate flats.

The 6.00x6 tires hold up great, but personally I don't like the feel. The angle on the ground is slightly lower on the nose, and they are grabby when touching down.

[airhound]

Same, took mine off for the feel. 

[EricB]

So Desser Tire honored the warranty even though it was longer than they advertise.  So now, I will test any tube when received rather than leave it packed for easy transport.  The replacement tube is on with a new tire I had previously purchased.  Today, we will see how inflation to 32 goes - couple hours with a couple of out landings.  BUT, I checked where I'm intending to land and both say they offer maintenance services.  Still a bit shy about what I'd do at a more remote location.  That's a point I'm going to research.  Let's say I blew a tire on a 3000 ft strip which only had taxi exits at each end.  The plane is stuck on the runway.  Now what?

 

[Anticept]

On 9/17/2023 at 2:26 PM, Tom Baker said:

The 6.00x6 tires hold up great, but personally I don't like the feel. The angle on the ground is slightly lower on the nose, and they are grabby when touching down.

This gives me an amusing thought of putting motors on to get them "pre-spinning" so that the touchdown doesn't have such an impact due to the rotational mass.

[procharger]

I never use powder in my wheels. Never had a flat. 8 years. x fingers.

[Anticept]

I've only had a flat once but not in a CT, and I do use powder. 1,011 logged CT landings according to my logbook at this moment.

The main issue is from the tire scooting on touchdown but slipping in the wheel, sometimes grabbing the tube and turning it.

If you have the smaller wheels, this is far less of an issue for some reason. I think part of it goes back to the fact flight design decided to forego the optional wheel spacer for larger tires, and the tire beads don't fit as well in the narrow wheel fitment, making them prone to slipping.

[Tom Baker]

35 minutes ago, Anticept said:

I've only had a flat once but not in a CT, and I do use powder. 1,011 logged CT landings according to my logbook at this moment.

The main issue is from the tire scooting on touchdown but slipping in the wheel, sometimes grabbing the tube and turning it.

If you have the smaller wheels, this is far less of an issue for some reason. I think part of it goes back to the fact flight design decided to forego the optional wheel spacer for larger tires, and the tire beads don't fit as well in the narrow wheel fitment, making them prone to slipping.

I think the smaller tires are more likely to slip. The OP has the smaller tires, or at least that's what it looks like in the picture.

[Anticept]

I don't have much experience with the small wheels to make any significant comparisons.

I do know though, the larger tires slipped quite a lot on our aircraft in flight training (resulting in torn stems) until I started putting a bit of rubber cement on the bead, and then that stopped completely.

We did have an SW with the small wheels for a limited time, and I don't recall the tires ever slipping or blowing, but we swapped it to matcos quickly

The slipping tires ONLY happened on the flight designs. The 172s, warrior, and my mooney never had an issue. That said, I never had such a difficult time with tube and tire changes aside from matcos on flight designs because the wheels are incredibly narrow.

[kinoons]

I had one flat on landing in my training with a 2008 CTSW. It was within a second or two upon touchdown. Apparently flats had been an issue as the owner/instructor kept a small ryobi inflator in his bag for just such an occasion. We were able to inflate the tire enough to last 5 seconds or so of taxi, stop, inflate again, taxi…and get off the runway for a proper tow.