Cross Country Solo Landings

[EminiTrader]

Wow - did my first cross country solo today!! Kinda gusty, but went pretty well. I did a bunch of videos, but I edited two of them to a couple of minutes to show my landings (hopefully i can get them to embed). Not great landings - but I walked away!!

 

Landing KHEG

 

Landing 42J

 

[EminiTrader]

Oh One thing

 

At 42J - there is restricted airspace about a mile north of it. I was trying to enter RWY 5 on a 45 without crossing over the restricted air space

[Duane Jefts]

The natural tendency is for a pilot in the left seat to land left of the center line and the pilot in the right seat to land on the right side of the center line.

 

You must have been in the left seat. Also need more crosswind correction. That wind from the right gave you some trouble.

 

The first thing you might try is to visually put the center line between your legs and not let it get away "ever"!!!. That will help with your cross wind corrections as well. If you maintain the center line throughout the landing you will have to put in any required cross wind corrections.

 

Just a couple suggestions to work on. Do with them as you wish.

[Doug G.]

If you want to get rid of the propeller weirdness Nflightcam.com has filters. The landings look familiar, I am working on holding centerline now.

[Doug G.]

I would add one thing to Duane's comments and that is to make certain you straighten the nose wheel when you touch down. If you don't quite have the centerline, trying to get there as you are touching down will give you a surprise turn.

(Voice of experience.)

If you manage to keep it centered all the way down as he suggests, while using the wing low method it shouldn't be a problem.

[EminiTrader]

Duane - yaeh i was in the left seat. The camera was on the right side where the dash board kicks down and out of the way- great place for the camera to go but it shows you the co-pilots perspective. Also - I AM having a hard time with the cross wind correctino - I take any and all advice! I was actually going to do some touch n go;s but i got beat up so badly flying that I was ready to get out of the plane. The weather showed all good - but once I got to about 2000 feet I was bouncing around all the way.

 

@DougG: filters on order

 

@DougG: Yaeh I gotta keep practicing that... I am finally starting to feel like I have some contriol. IT was tough.

 

But quick newb question - what is the "wings low method" - if they taught me, I forgot

[EminiTrader]

Funny - CFI just emailed me and said this:

 

NIce videos, and not bad landings, though both were pretty far left of the centerline (normal for you) - so i guess I do that alot

[FlyingMonkey]

But quick newb question - what is the "wings low method" - if they taught me, I forgot

 

I think the "wing low" reference is to the "side slip" style crosswind method. You use rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the runway centerline, then use aileron as necessary to eliminate any drift away from the centerline caused by the rudder input. In any significant crosswind, this will cause a cross-controlled condition and you will make your approach with one of your wings (downwind wing I believe) low.

 

Many pilots prefer this method to crabbing into the wind, because you maintain proper runway alignment throughout the entire approach. With a crab, in order to avoid side-loading the gear on touch down, you have to transition at some point to a side slip anyway, so why not do it early when you have lots of time to adjust it perfectly, instead of when you are approaching the flare and making all the other inputs you need to make for a successful touchdown?

 

Where a crab shines, IMO, is when you have winds severe enough that you will run out of rudder authority and can't maintain the centerline. In that circumstance, a crab down may get you down low enough that there is enough wind block from trees, buildings, etc to lesson the crosswind component enough for the crab-to-slip transition to work out. If you watch the show "Flying Wild Alaska" you will see those pilots almost exclusively use a crab, because they are often landing in 40 knots plus of crosswind.

[EminiTrader]

@Mr.Morden: WOW - I have so much more to learn... It all makes sense, but man, when I am trying to land, I feel like my brain is full THANK YOU for the input. You always have something good to say on this board, and I appreciate it the comments! I see you are in Athens - we're not that far away. Maybe we'll do lunch one day when I have a plane, and a license

[FlyingMonkey]

Sounds great Emini, I'd love to get together sometime! We all have a lot to learn, I'm a low time pilot too, and while I know a lot of theory, I'm not always consistent putting it into practice! Crosswinds still give me heartburn too.

 

I'm sure Fast Eddie, Charlie Tango, Roger Lee, and some of the other highly experienced pilots can help on technique more than I can.

[Jim Meade]

Here is what the Airplane Flying Handbook says about a side slip:

 

"A“sideslip” is entered by lowering a wing and applying

just enough opposite rudder to prevent a turn. In a

sideslip, the airplane’s longitudinal axis remains parallel

to the original flightpath, but the airplane no

longer flies straight ahead. Instead the horizontal

component of wing lift forces the airplane also to

move somewhat sideways toward the low wing.

[Figure 8-12] The amount of slip, and therefore the

rate of sideward movement, is determined by the bank

angle. The steeper the bank—the greater the degree of

slip. As bank angle is increased, however, additional

opposite rudder is required to prevent turning."

 

Note that the controlling input is the aileron which you use to stay on the centerline so the airplane does not drift downwind. You only need to use the rudder to stay aligned with the centerline so the nose points down the runway, particularly important on touchdown. The aileron keeps the side loading down (you'll naturally land on the upwind wheel first). The rudder keeps the nose straight (but you may have to straighten the rudder on CTs, Piper Tripacrs and others of that ilk with rudder-connected nose wheels). At steep bank angles you may indeed run out of rudder. That would be time to give some serious thought to using a different runway.

 

As we all know, a strong wind often changes both speed and direction on final. The wind at 500' AGL may shift CCW and lessen in speed, typically. As was mentioned, it may also pick up mechanical turbulence. A long side slip on final is a good way to ingrain wind dynamics into your brain because you can't ignore them as you can in a crab.

[Ed Cesnalis]

My mind works like the FAA flying handbook, I first lower the upwind wing as soon as I sense drift in order to counter it and then I apply rudder to keep me aligned and prevent a turn.

 

Rudder 1st will cause an unwanted yaw where aileron first will cause a wanted bank into the crosswind. This concept is likely natural and nothing you need worry about but Andy's description did make me think that its backwards at least for me.

 

Another thing that helps me is to do a lot of aerodynamic braking ( less in big winds ) that way I get slow as soon as possible and by the time the nose settles it is less likely to surprise me.

 

If you always land left, you could intentionally land right, maybe it will be on the line or if it is on the right just do less the next time.

[Ed Cesnalis]

This video presents good visuals on crosswind methods.

 

[WmInce]

This video presents good visuals on crosswind methods.

 

UND Aerospace videos are a great resource.

Thanks for posting that.

[Doug G.]

Yes, this is a part of a series. Good stuff.

[EminiTrader]

GREAT VIDEO - it helped alot. IN fact, everyone's comments did !! Thanks!

[GlennM]

Cool videos. I drive my race car on the west side of 42J. The FIRM - track days twice a month. You can see the track really well when you are entering the pattern. I keep my CT at X21.

[EminiTrader]

@GlennM: Racecar and plane? NICE Just sold my Vette last year so I could buy a plane Wife said "1 toy"

[FlyingMonkey]

@GlennM: Racecar and plane? NICE Just sold my Vette last year so I could buy a plane Wife said "1 toy"

 

You have chosen...wisely.

 

Lots of people have Vettes...not many have their own airplane.

[Doug G.]

Two things:

1) The Flight Training magazine that just came out has a good article on crosswind landings.

2) What kind of car?

[coppercity]

Come on down to Bisbee sometime we can school you up on some crosswinds

[FredG]

"you can practice cross wind technique without the wind. Use the same techniques as if there were a cross wind and land. That is tilt a wing, slip, rudder, and land on one wheel while you flare."

 

I do not see how this is aerodynamically possible without a cross wind, while 1) keeping the long axis of the airplane aligned with centerline of the runway and 2) avoiding side loading on the wheel that makes contact with the runway.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Fred,

 

Crabbing isn't possible without the crosswind of course. I think your right on the slip, can you do a side slip without drifting in the direction of the low wing? Normally we match the amount of drift the to crosswind component and hold the center line. I don't see how you can manage drift and alignment with a slip and no crosswind.

 

But he is right that you can practice and a good practice is to drift to the runway edge and back and to the other runway edge and back while maintaining alignment and doing a low pass at approach speed with some flaps.

 

You can practice landing, rolling and taking off on one ( either ) wheel see the t&g at 25seconds on this video. without the crosswind it looks like he gives up alignment.

 

[Doug G.]

I know I can crab without any wind, but rain and snow make me even crabbier! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Jim Meade]

Landing and rolling out then taking off on one wheel or alternating wheels is an old tail wheel proficiency trick. It's also good if you have too much rubber on the outside of your tire.

 

It might be fun to do one or two but it might be better to do them on grass because it will take some rubber off on a hard surface.