Ed Cesnalis Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Bought mine today from LEAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I mentioned that since changing to the new modules my engine has been decidedly rough for a few minutes after engine start. I began my annual condition inspection today. I checked and with the "choke" off, the left choke was staying partly on. The reason was pretty clear: That curved brass tube is broken at both ends. That lets it "flop around" a bit, causing friction and keeping the choke lever from going all the way to the "off" position. My working theory is that the vibration of the running engine lets it gradually close over a couple minutes. Why did this start with the new modules? Maybe in working on the engine I might have accidentally applied pressure to the tube and broke it. Anyway, ordered a new one from Lockwood today I'll report back if that did in fact cure the issue. Oh, and it might be a good thing to check - some of those little parts on the BING carbs seem a bit fragile to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Good catch Eddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Wait until you find out that little 90° brass tube is about $55... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Wait until you find out that little 90° brass tube is about $55... That would be about the same price as the Hex-headed magnetic oil plug. No BS. My jaw hit the floor when I found that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Wait until you find out that little 90° brass tube is about $55... $28.10 in the LEAF catalog, albeit from 2010-2011. Did not even ask Lockwood the price - just send it. Why get aggravated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco01 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Google it - there's lots of good shipping services. Actually, I just noticed it's a bit less than $400 - it's 150 Euros per unit, so that's about $330 for the two. (The Euro has really fallen out of bed recently.) I'd photograph them and drop the French guys an e mail asking if the offer still stands before you post them, and make sure it's a tracked parcel. Start your e mail off with 'Bonjour' as they appreciate it when you at least try to speak a bit of French! actually, the French company will charge almost 800€ for both modules: I have sent mine, and received back in one week 2 other repaired modules. pb is fixed now and the engine starts immediately! for our US friends, note that french company doesn't repair the modules themselves, but use the services of the following Netherland organisation https://www.carmo.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=493_497_671_2711_4729&products_id=1031&language=en&zenid=9p6vbc1tbb3fjs498c6kaf1pf6 i have heard that they are also located in US: to be check... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco01 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 actually, the French company will charge almost 800€ for both modules: I have sent mine, and received back in one week 2 other repaired modules. pb is fixed now and the engine starts immediately! for our US friends, note that french company doesn't repair the modules themselves, but use the services of the following Netherland organisation https://www.carmo.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=493_497_671_2711_4729&products_id=1031&language=en&zenid=9p6vbc1tbb3fjs498c6kaf1pf6 i have heard that they are also located in US: to be check... some news on this one: I have let the engine off for 3 weeks on a row + hot day during the test: the rotax started immediately! great news and so happy that this Netherlands company found a way to fixed this. note that they replace the failed component (capacitor) by a new one with higher temperature standard (automotive). this is great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Mine just failed. Fortunately I have a pair of new, less than $1K, modules on the shelf. 2007 CTSW with about 415 hours TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hi John. What was the failure mode when your modules stopped working? Any advanced warning or did your CT just not start? I also bought a pair of modules and these are on my shelf for my 2006 CTSW. I'm going to install the new ones soon but just wondering if there's any warnings for a "no start"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Mine gave a subtle warning, but that was due to my different setup with a Bullyhawk SoftStart module and separate ignition switches. The Bullyhawk called for me to start on just IGN 2, which I did successfully for years. It then started to balk at that, and I would often have to go to both ignitions ON to get a start. So, my working theory is that the starting module of IGN 2 failed at some point, or at least got intermittent, requiring that IGN 1 be on as well to start. When that one failed as well, that was that. If the CT just has a BOTH position on the ignition when its on START, you'd never get a warning you were starting on one ignition with the other failed. It's only when the second failed you'd be totally hosed, with what seemed to be a simultaneous failure. Bear in mind it seems to just be the starting circuit that fails, so once it starts on the good ignition, both ignitions are usually fine during the runup and subsequent flight. As an aside, I bought an inexpensive inductive timing light to confirm I was not getting spark from either module - about $35 at O'Reilly's. I was warned by Roger not to try to look for a spark on a removed spark plug - that the spark is hard to see and losing ground could potentially damage a good module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Eddie, thanks for jogging my memory or your issues with your modules. Forgot about the induction timing light. I've got similar setup with a Snap-On induction tach. I get an almost instantaneous start and all seems OK presently with hobbs @ 790 hours but will now definitely install new modules before any flights away from home base. Might play with my induction tach before new installation to see if I get input from both modules. If new modules can only be purchased now for $2,000+, I imagine that there will be owners looking into the option to have old modules rebuilt per Marco's comments above. I'll keep my old ones as backups and for cores to use if the rebuild is effective, as only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Might play with my induction tach before new installation to see if I get input from both modules. Bear in mind that has to be done while actually starting - once started everything fires just fine. Maybe you could just unplug or ground each module while starting, to see if either one has failed in the starting mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Is it a fact now that a pair of the updated modules is $2000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hi John. What was the failure mode when your modules stopped working? Any advanced warning or did your CT just not start? I also bought a pair of modules and these are on my shelf for my 2006 CTSW. I'm going to install the new ones soon but just wondering if there's any warnings for a "no start"? There was no warning. It worked fine the last time I flew. Yesterday morning it would not start. Iced the modules 30 minutes. Engine started. Problem identified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Is it a fact now that a pair of the updated modules is $2000? Depends. When I got mine earlier this year CPS quoted the nearly $2K figure. No explanation. Called Leading Edge. Quoted just less than $1K for the pair which have a single part number. The difference, I think, is that Rotax had a limited run of the $1K pair. Leading Edge had some of those left. CPS apparently did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Depends. When I got mine earlier this year CPS quoted the nearly $2K figure. No explanation. Called Leading Edge. Quoted just less than $1K for the pair which have a single part number. The difference, I think, is that Rotax had a limited run of the $1K pair. Leading Edge had some of those left. CPS apparently did not. My modules *seem* to be fine, but I'm wondering if I should buy them if I can for $1000 now in case of future calamity. Does anybody have any stats on what percentage of modules eventually fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 My modules *seem* to be fine, but I'm wondering if I should buy them if I can for $1000 now in case of future calamity. Does anybody have any stats on what percentage of modules eventually fail? It's a tough call. Your modules may never have the problem. On the other hand............ Just remember, if they run out of the $1K jobs, and don't have a new run of them, then it's $2k. I thought mine would be fine and then they weren't. If you buy them, and never need them, you can sell them at least for what you will pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I thought my old ones were going but once I stopped using the Tanis heater the hard starts went away. I upgraded anyway to get the softer starting and I'm glad I did. I have a 10 year old pair that still work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I thought my old ones were going but once I stopped using the Tanis heater the hard starts went away. I upgraded anyway to get the softer starting and I'm glad I did. I have a 10 year old pair that still work. The new ones are not just plug and play, correct? IIRC there are some connectors that need re-wiring, and an additional wire added...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Plug and play, except for one wire run to the starter solenoid for each module. Post #53 has an image, and I think there's a pdf of the installation procedure somewhere in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yep, one wire for each module. Just unclip 4 connectors and the old modules come off after removal of two screws. Then add the two new wires, clip in the 4 connectors, screw the modules in snug with thread locker, and connect the two wires to the solenoid. What could be easier. Say it fast and you're done!! Problem is, getting to the 4 connectors to get them off and getting the two new wires in. Not saying it isn't straightforward but it is not what I think of as plug and play.. Rogers time - 30 minutes. The rest of us - 2 hours and at least one bleeding knuckle!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Took Jeremy less than an hour to do mine. Seems mostly we talked I hardly noticed the work getting done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 You should have a special pair of Molex crimping pliers to crimp the pins on the wire, other than that pretty straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Hi Ed, What did the Tanis heater have to do with hard starts? It should have been the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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