tfdixon Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Are there specific printed instructions to removal of just the parachute canister for shipping to be repacked. I have the BRS Installation Manual. Just wondered if there is a manual or instructions just for the repack and/or repack and rocket replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 It's packed too tightly for field service. Only soft pack models can be repacked in the field. Parachutes also require parachute packing ratings, even if they could be done in the field, experimental or not, parachutes fall under different regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravoFoxtrot Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Which BRS Manual do you have? There is a generic manual for all aircraft and Installation manuals for the SW and another for the LS. You should be able to find these last two manuals on the Flight Design website. Although they are for the installation, you just start at the back page and work your way forward. Lots of photos so it is easy to follow along. You will have to remove the rocket as it is attached to the side of the canister. If it is not due to be replaced, just set it aside to reinstall when you get the repacked chute back. Either way do not mail the rocket to them as it is classified as a hazardous material. For the harnesses you just need to remove the quick link on the top of the canister. Remove the nuts from the mounting plate and lift it out. This part is heavy enough and awkward so having a second person (1 for each luggage door) is helpful. It has been a few years since I did mine. I thought there was a procedure somewhere just for removing and sending this in, but I am unable to locate it at this time. Perhaps someone else has better information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 13 hours ago, tfdixon said: Are there specific printed instructions to removal of just the parachute canister for shipping to be repacked. I have the BRS Installation Manual. Just wondered if there is a manual or instructions just for the repack and/or repack and rocket replacement. The chute removal is easy. Easier on an SW than an LS. Give me a call and I'll go over it. 520-349-7056. It takes me about 20 minutes to remove the chute and 5 minutes to remove the rocket. The hardest thing is unscrewing the carabiner and removing the bridales. The screw only needs to be hand tight just like when Mnt. climbing or rappelling, but some take a wrench to it and make it a PITA sometimes to loosen because of the confined space and limited visibility when you need to get wrenches up there. Quick synopsis: Remove small screw that holds the looped firing cable in place where the plastic cover is where it goes up into the bottom of the rocket. This is a standard allen head screw. Once removed the rocket handle is now disengaged. Loosen the carabiner and remove the bridal cables out of the carabiner up at the top of the chute. You will most likely need to remove the clear plastic shields on both sides of the flap control area. This makes it easy when you remove the chute to just tilt it long ways and right out the baggage door. Remove the 6 7/16" nuts on the plate where the chute is mounted on. This is the only time I ever use an air ratchet in any of my aircraft workings. It's ten times easier to use squeeze the trigger and unscrew these 6 nuts. You can use a standard ratchet if you want, but the air driven one just make life easier. Keep a hand on the chute when removing the last nut so the chute doesn't fall. Depending on the person a second set of hands from the other side of the baggage compartment help lower the chute and slide it out the opening. This weighs approx. 28-30 lbs. Once out take a piece of safety wire and at the bottom of the rocket end is a hole for a safety wire. Now take a small ratchet and remove the two aluminum screws that hold the cableed ring down on top of the rocket and slide the ring off. Now remove the three allen head screws on the bottom of the ringed plate where the rocket is mounted. Now take the rocket and put it away for reuse if the rocket isn't due. If a rocket is due at the 12 year mark you will get a new one. A rocket CAN NOT be shipped as it is considered an explosive when assembled. If you get a new rocket it comes in a few parts that you put together. It's easy too and takes me about 10 minutes to assemble to get ready to re-mount it on the chute. To install the chute just reverse this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Jefts Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Both BRS and flight design have specific instructions on chute/rocket removal. Just call BRS and they can point you in the right directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 22 minutes ago, Roger Lee said: The hardest thing is unscrewing the carabiner and removing the bridales. The screw only needs to be hand tight just like when Mnt. climbing or rappelling, but some take a wrench to it and make it a PITA sometimes to loosen because of the confined space and limited visibility when you need to get wrenches up there. Flight Design's installation manual calls for Loctite 242 on the carabiner, and BRS's installation instructions are the same. I know it makes it a pain in the you know what, but by regulation it needs to be done on a SLSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 That's odd because I have never found loctite on any of these carabiners. Many are hard to screw in or out anyway. There is no way it can come undone if there was then all Mnt. climbers and rappelling folks would use it on all their gear and I've done both of these in my life too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Sometimes these decisions are made by someone sitting at a desk who has never seen a wrench, I used to work with some of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 9 hours ago, Roger Lee said: That's odd because I have never found loctite on any of these carabiners. Many are hard to screw in or out anyway. There is no way it can come undone if there was then all Mnt. climbers and rappelling folks would use it on all their gear and I've done both of these in my life too. Maybe years vibrating in an airframe can cause it to unscrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 I haven't seen them unscrew on some CT's in 2K, 3K or 4K hours of run time. Never even heard of it happening. I never heard from an FD people to put Loctite on it either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 I know that it supposed to get Loctite because I read the installation instructions prior to doing my first parachute replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravoFoxtrot Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 I know when I first removed my chute there was no loctite on the link. I have replaced it several times so far and never used any then either. However, I have reread the instructions for the SW and on paragraph 3.4 it specifically calls out to "Use blue 242 LOCTITE on the link threads ..." . Another benefit of the discussions on this forum. I learn something all the time. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 I just don't see the scientific fact based rationale of using te loctite. So we have a division of opinions and the bottom line is both work. So if you want to use the Loctite go for it and if you don't well it didn't seem to bother FD. Someone tell me how that hard to screw carabiner locking screw with threads on both sides of it will come completely undone and loose the cables. Where it's located and because of its design it can't happen. Someone when they wrote things just thought it was safer and without any knowledge of carabiners. Plus if this is the case why aren't all carabiners loctited? You can buy them in all kinds of store, you use them for dangerous sports yet this is the only place anyone says to loctite them. I've done dozens and dozens of chutes and from the FD factory and still never seen any loctite. I've been using and dealing with carabiners since I was 18 years old and never had anyone do something like this. It can't come unscrewed. They use tons of them rappelling and no one does this and their life is actually hanging out in the open. If it is so life threatening why didn't FD apply it to a couple thousand planes? This is kind of like someone with their car door. You shut it, lock it and then put a rope outside through the handle and tie it to your headrest inside. LOL Is it better than the billions that don't do it that way sure, but is it needed no. How much is too much? Will it hurt anything to use loctite, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 This is being done because of the lawyers. Next issue people will complain it's too difficult to undo the nut. Roger is right these fasteners don't come apart if fastened correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 I just put on a couple drops. Won't change taking it off much at all which is already painful, but it should cover any questions that might come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 What could it hurt to ask BRS…you know maybe they conducted some scientific T&E like throw one in a paint mixer to proximate that kind of failure over years of use ~or a couple of your less stellar landings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 To me it is not about whether it needs it or not. It is not about what Flight Design did at the factory. Per regulation a mechanic or light sport repairman is legally obligated to follow the maintenance procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Roger (and Madhatter) may be right (or not) that carabiners won't come undone, (he is referencing different carabiners used in different ways) but Roger is wrong if he thinks his opinion or conclusion is an excuse for not following the manual on an SLSA. This is a silly discussion. If SLSA owners accept a non-specified fuel hose or refuse to put specified loctite on a parachute carabiner "because Roger said it's OK" the owner will likely find no defense if the FAA has occasion to question non-standard methods. If anyone writes "in accordance with" "Rotax" or "FD manuals" in recording maintenance records, and does NOT follow the manual, that is a falsehood and it is probably a waste of money to sign up for AOPA Pilot Protection. If one sells an airplane - SLSA or ELSA - and avers it has been maintained by the book, does one add "except where Roger said I didn't need to?". Likely not. After a long diatribe on why loctite is not needed, Roger concludes that it won't hurt anything to use loctite. Really, Roger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, airhound said: What could it hurt to ask BRS…you know maybe they conducted some scientific T&E like throw one in a paint mixer to proximate that kind of failure over years of use ~or a couple of your less stellar landings Unless Flight Design defers to BRS, it is Flight Design's manual that rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 I'm ELSA so it's not an issue. As far as the FAA, I have spoken to a lot of them and there is one common denominator, they don't know and don't care about LSA. FD needs to pay more attention to the business as a whole. At the current rate of production they will not be able to survive financially. Investors will only finance a business so long with marginal income numbers. A few planes a month will not work. Not only that but the new MOSAIC rules are making the competition develop new aircraft to meet the new rules and I don't think FD is in the game. If they don't get it together soon we will all be ELSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 ……concur…on top of that, aren't major airframe repairs or replacements the CT’s Achilles Heel…not sure if that applies to the latest models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, airhound said: ……concur…on top of that, aren't major airframe repairs or replacements the CT’s Achilles Heel…not sure if that applies to the latest models. A lot of the parts like metal fittings for the gear and other heavy use parts can be made. If FD went out there are lot of companies that do secondary market parts for experimental as there is a large number of CT's worldwide. Right now no one will make parts because of the manufacturer. If I have to make a welded part I will use 4130 steel instead of the mild steel FD uses. Other than a totally destroyed CT I don't see an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 What about a wing beyond repair? Heard they are fitted to each airframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 10 hours ago, airhound said: What about a wing beyond repair? Heard they are fitted to each airframe. Then you're done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 11 hours ago, airhound said: What about a wing beyond repair? Heard they are fitted to each airframe. These airplanes were all built by hand, so if you could come up with tooling parts can be made. The problem is, it would be cost prohibitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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